WR Release #567 - 20 New Demos

By Vee mapper VIP·
juanch0x

8b1_brickngrass done in ( 04:16.66 chip )
kz_kzsca_desk done in ( 06:20.73 VErzuZ )

pizza^

bkz_forestrace done in ( 02:18.07 Chasquido )
cg_nowhere done in ( 03:16.15 gizpo_O )
ex_deathdrop done in ( 01:56.92 gizpo_O )

prize

clintmo_longjumper[x] done in ( 00:05.71 kayne )

PakT

communityblock_outtakes done in ( 04:56.09 JrG )

DELf1n

dr0_cliffside done in ( 01:54.40 KeltA )

novice

j2s_westbl0ck done in ( 02:48.65 Chasquido )

Memories

kz_conveyor done in ( 02:39.17 w1zz )

g0zi

kz_cosy_temple3 done in ( 05:14.73 kayne )

gizpo_O

kz_greattemple done in ( 04:19.87 koukouz )

Np_O

kz_j2s_darktower done in ( 01:21.15 Np_O )

ZzdNk

kz_kzfr_duke done in ( 09:08.41 koukouz )

7D

kz_kzfr_notredame[-catacombs] done in ( 03:42.40 novice )
kz_real_adventure_b01 done in ( 10:02.25 novice )

kSiunkaS

kz_kzsca_greenisland done in ( 04:32.23 DeeDFTW )

Kraeft

kz_wsp_snowbeach done in ( 03:48.53 Kraeft )

akkord

risk_simpsons done in ( 03:04.12 Chasquido )

kayne

sn_boxedout done in ( 01:58.45 mgD )

Read the extended news post for demos that were improved or didn't quite make it.

Comments

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Dubsteprecord holder
15/04/2011 02:42:00

gj!

Ducu
15/04/2011 02:42:00

gj all i win?!

PepoMerca
15/04/2011 02:42:00

MEMORIES AND JUANCHO!

nucLeaR
15/04/2011 02:42:00

I was 3s ago here and there was nothing going on :) GJ all

dan_
15/04/2011 02:42:00

GJ ALL, NICE TOP5 7D

skipp
15/04/2011 02:43:00

gj

nucLeaR
15/04/2011 02:43:00

Awesome demos! 7D Gj again! <3 your crazy style.pizza, juanch0x, kayne :) Np_O the awsum sc finder. GJ all!

insk
15/04/2011 02:43:00

Juanch0x & memo novice :first:

Ducu
15/04/2011 02:43:00

gj kayne, pakt <3, akkord, memories, juanch0x gizpo and hel. really awesome release.

dudu2580
15/04/2011 02:49:00

novice lol westblock

F4SO
15/04/2011 02:49:00

memo juancho :up:

Sebasss
15/04/2011 02:52:00

memo juancho pizza

3T
15/04/2011 02:53:00

gj 7D gj hel 's map

[K]riL
15/04/2011 03:08:00

gj alllll!!!!!!!

Memories
15/04/2011 03:09:00

Ok, really? You keep denying demos because of a bug you dont even know what causes it? I'm not going to keep recording for xj any further more under this stupid rules. [b]Edit by Vee:[/b] Unfortunately, the Steam ID is what really identifies you, not your nickname. We are sorry that you feel this way, byt, as you said, we can't do anything about it. I said it before and I will repeat: you can use DemoChecker to see if your demo is alright, and it if wasn't, then you wouldn't be blaming us.

Saturw0w
15/04/2011 03:14:00

Memo ♥

juanch0x
15/04/2011 03:17:00

pizza <3 memo <3 kayne :D:D

kyser
15/04/2011 03:20:00

sad that this bugs still appear in demos... thise was memo's time :( ... but sadest is that great demos are still being denied cuz of that stupid thing.. memo, juan, pizza, kayne, akkord, 7d, np_o, and the rest ;)

Xaizen
15/04/2011 03:26:00

PakT!!!!! <3 nice release,fuck yea 7D :first:

zzarecord holder Tournament #1 VIP
15/04/2011 03:29:00

gj cypek

PoshitO
15/04/2011 03:38:00

ok, we know that a bug causes the demo not containing Steam ID. But we all know memories, we all know the demo is legit. So why cant you accept it anyways? [b]Edit by Punk^[/b]: Because there's no way to proof that it is actually memories jumping.

NPLAY
15/04/2011 03:57:00

oh.. good risk_simpsons, go 02:50! GJ 7D, kayne, memories, pizza^, juanch0x, DELf1n, Np_O, zZdNk! esp novice <3

Link`
15/04/2011 04:08:00

wow simpons

Bunkka
15/04/2011 04:11:00

Russia!

ih | Soad!
15/04/2011 04:21:00

arg,usa,spain

TomS
15/04/2011 04:50:00

gj juanch0x

kztw`mai
15/04/2011 04:51:00

7D ARGENTINA <3 GJ all others

Keo mapper
15/04/2011 04:56:00

JUANCHO!!! and gj novice...sexy style as always -> eye candy demo.

ih | Kower
15/04/2011 05:18:00

juanch0x, Memories and pizza^ gj guys <3

kyser
15/04/2011 05:22:00

gj delf1n!

fReq^
15/04/2011 05:29:00

great job guyz..

PakT
15/04/2011 06:22:00

bkm_problock_Memories_0234.70.rar - Demo contains no Steam ID. Sas :( gj all

PakT
15/04/2011 06:22:00

bkm_problock_Memories_0234.70.rar - Demo contains no Steam ID. Sad :( gj all

Klunya
15/04/2011 06:23:00

prize, DELf1n, Zz, g0zi, kSiunkaS good job

scrap3R`
15/04/2011 06:43:00

Russia gj

ShutDown
15/04/2011 06:54:00

GJ ALL :D

PuRPoSe
15/04/2011 06:56:00

GJ all!

GodXen
15/04/2011 07:13:00

ksiunkas gj 12sec improvement

borko
15/04/2011 07:19:00

novice gizpo kayne memories

eFFoRt
15/04/2011 07:25:00

DELFINN!!!!! Krasava, very nice! at last ZZ :up: akkord cheating ?))

Brummbär
15/04/2011 07:25:00

HELL!

Poundfiller
15/04/2011 08:03:00

prize DELf1n ZzdNk gj !!! :)

twistedVoid
15/04/2011 08:14:00

[i]prize clintmo_longjumper[x] done in 00:05.70 ( 00:05.71 kayne )[/i] These improvement always makes me lol! ^_^

Womanaizer
15/04/2011 08:31:00

prize zz gj

Xavi Tournament #1
15/04/2011 08:37:00

Delfin <33333333333333 YOU DID IT MAN !!!!! GOOD JOB ZZdnk, prize - nice gays! <3 gj pizza :O novice omg..

qfiman*
15/04/2011 08:45:00

gj all =)

Xavi Tournament #1
15/04/2011 08:48:00

DELF1N <333333333333333 YOU DID IT MAN !!!! GOOD JOB =) ZZDNK, PRize nice work gays pizza wtf :O novice omg..

97club^7d
15/04/2011 08:48:00

gj all cool guys ~ esp pizza~you like that commercials: pizza hot hot to your home! <35$>

Joe_Cole
15/04/2011 08:52:00

gj all

Swoozy
15/04/2011 09:18:00

GJ delfin and 7d

RYSL4NZ0R
15/04/2011 09:36:00

DELFIN GJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ <3

Bibika`
15/04/2011 09:45:00

Gj[flag]FI[/flag][b]novice[/b], nice WR on my favorite map [flag]RU[/flag][b]DELf1n[/b] gj for first WR <3

WOOFix
15/04/2011 09:58:00

7D and novice go top5 players tbh :D

sitdown!
15/04/2011 10:05:00

gujob pizza^ :D -all..

cahz0r Tournament #3
15/04/2011 10:21:00

16 jumpers! gj all! simpsons epic!

sitdown!
15/04/2011 10:26:00

SIMPSONS EPIC !!!great work akkord- have to see ya doin' it faster !Keep up the good work :)

Xavi Tournament #1
15/04/2011 10:44:00

Delfin GJ <3

kaa
15/04/2011 10:48:00

DELf1n big gj for first wr. Keep them coming, you now capable of doing it =) Novice epic, but 7D is even more epic for sho...

nobody^
15/04/2011 10:52:00

Sweet, good job all involved, especially novice! Too bad for mgD. :/

souceek
15/04/2011 11:02:00

PakT <333333

Rapha
15/04/2011 11:26:00

snowbeach for ROTW :O gj all :D

Alexandr_Smit
15/04/2011 11:29:00

Russia GJ !

InfinityBG
15/04/2011 11:41:00

gj all esp kayne problock looks beatable, but that much? 7 sec lol sick :D

McL Banned Comment Banned
15/04/2011 11:47:00

gizpo_O and novice !!!!!!

kaynerecord holder
15/04/2011 11:47:00

g0zi, Kraeft! 7D, novice, memo, juan, pizzaaaaa!!!, gizpo, ksiunkas

Lu0nto
15/04/2011 12:01:00

ZzdNk, DELf1n!!! juach0x, pizza, novice,prize,akkord! Gj boy's

nikitich moviemaker
15/04/2011 12:04:00

prize clintmo_longjumper[x] done in 00:05.70 ( 00:05.71 kayne ) this is gettin a lil old gj akkord

`ScraP Tournament #2
15/04/2011 12:11:00

sweeeet novice vs 7d :D

mmmsas
15/04/2011 12:18:00

gud jab ksiunkas! :first:

DeathClawrecord holder Tournament #1
15/04/2011 12:33:00

GJ every1 !

RoN`
15/04/2011 13:13:00

pizzas man :D <3

Chichin mapperrecord holder
15/04/2011 13:18:00

akkord go 2:xx boss.

fel1x
15/04/2011 13:20:00

where is Cypeks wr?

Berserker`
15/04/2011 13:39:00

RUSSIA! pizza back <3 novice king.

jarski
15/04/2011 13:46:00

gj gizpo novice kayne and akkord

tin☼pEE
15/04/2011 13:47:00

gj akkord - juanch0x - pizza & novice <3

rampLrecord holder
15/04/2011 13:54:00

kz_wsp_snowbeach done in 03:38.63 ROTW! noviceeee :first: :first: :first: gj akkord - some fails but still 2-3 sec improve :D

ScrAw
15/04/2011 14:05:00

gj guys ;)

DiENOS
15/04/2011 14:08:00

novice <3

surRendirecord holder
15/04/2011 14:16:00

kraeft you are my idol

c0ncode
15/04/2011 14:16:00

Come on , everyone knows it's memories's demo but even if it's not , then who cares ... it's s wr on hard map which all of us would like to see ... He uploaded two demos and one has no Steam ID , rule is stupid as my grandma

chrizZo
15/04/2011 14:32:00

<deleted>

cahz0r Tournament #3
15/04/2011 15:26:00

at least put a download link for demo, just like you do with cheated demos. many people would like to see the run on that map even though is not officially a wr. i`m not talking about this demo only but all who are to come in the future.

Ovidiu Dumitru
15/04/2011 16:06:00

Impressive run Kraeft !

jusuuh
15/04/2011 16:16:00

novice, gizpo <3

dImAr1k
15/04/2011 16:28:00

DELf1n <3 kpacava!!

Frenzy`
15/04/2011 16:52:00

@ChrizZo, as far as I remember Adantoud and Kelta had this bug too. Gj novice, Np_o, g0zi 'n Kraeft!

Soulja-
15/04/2011 17:04:00

novice, kraeft, gizpo etc. gz for top5 7d

nick1978
15/04/2011 17:20:00

gj 7D~

Gargoyle
15/04/2011 17:43:00

I disagree with the lot of you saying the rule sucks. You're being completely biased. The plain fact is that admins have NOWAY of determine who the jumper is. XJ has had it's fair share of faked jumpers I doubt they'll budge on giving it another chance of happening. Are they really just supposed to take his or your word for it? Shit happens when you're out of luck :(

Ska-P
15/04/2011 18:37:00

gj memories, juanch0x ... chasquido :(

killahurtZ
15/04/2011 19:04:00

[b]OMG SICK REALESE[/b] [b]GJ ALL ESPECIALLY AKKORD, NOVICE, GIZPO, [/b]

kyser
15/04/2011 19:37:00

gargoyle, with that point of view, i can tell an arg kreedzer, to record some wrs with my nickname, and also with my steam account... which proof would xj have that i wasnt the guy who recorded those demos? i can say i just bought new pc and new mouse, and i have changed completely my style.. XJ used to work without a Demochecker along 4-5 years, when the only way to know that a player recorded a demo, was by showing his nickname in the demo.. and if im not wrong, it never happenned something like this, or if it happened, that guy/s got busted.. in my opinion, is a matter of logic and common sense, and goodwill.. they dont have any need to think that, in this case, the guy wasnt Memories, and reject that demo, since clearly it isnt cheated, and everyone know he did that demo. [b]Edit by Vee:[/b] A matter of logic and common sense. Logic: The demo does not show [flag]ar[/flag] [b]Memories[/b] recorded it. What identifies him is not his nickname, it's his Steam ID. Common Sense: If a demo with that Steam ID is recorded and the style diverges from [b]Memories[/b]', it's a whole other subject.

dx^
15/04/2011 19:40:00

Awesome , nice simpsons,greenisland,clintmo[x] gj :D

KraZe_
15/04/2011 20:50:00

pktttttteeee <3

Frenzy`
15/04/2011 21:10:00

btw, why don't you compare this demos with memo's others ? just like you did with heL and elfeN ?

sooshkarecord holder
15/04/2011 22:00:00

"Common Sense: If a demo with that Steam ID is recorded and the style diverges from Memories', it's a whole other subject." that can work both ways too u know? If a demo is recorded without steamid and the players name is memories and his style matches memories', then its common sense to think that it's memories. anyway why would any1 record demos for memo? whats the point? Wouldnt you want to get yourself famous instead? not to mention memories already has many records so its not like this one record is going to do much for his "glory". and as mentioned be4 this rule is easy to get around (styles can change or evolve too). common sense....

kyser
15/04/2011 22:00:00

ok, dont get surprised if u see some good wrs from me from now.. (btw i have just bought new pc, phenom II x4, and g5) :D

kyser
15/04/2011 22:25:00

sorry for the double post, by i forgot to say something: i guess Vee you are talking from all the Staff opinion, and not from yours only.. if im right, then you (XJ) are using stupid arguments: "What identifies him is not his nickname, is his SteamID".. as i said some comments above, xj used to work without this new tool Demochecker for 4-5 years more or less, and now you are saying that the only way to identify someone is by steamid, dont make me laugh.. if u were "cool" (dont know how to express the right word), you would accept his demo in this case, and all other demos that had this bug (adantoud's, mgd's, kelta's, etc).. just take a look at this thread: http://xtreme-jumps.eu/news.php?extend.1085 it was funny to see thopa and probably all the staff, trying to justify heL^_x's mistake, when we couldnt see anywhere his nickname in the demo, and the demo was finally released. i dont know why was chrizzo's comment blocked, but what he said was true.. steam accounts can be shared, and you wont have any proof about some cheating case, so u can see this rule makes no sense.. we, demos lovers, dont like to see these kind of things happening in, imo, the best kz community ever... and its very unfair for people that wasted time and effort trying to do their best in some demos, and a fuc**** bug causes them to lose their demos.. is that good? NO. im sure my opinion wont change YOUR opinion admins, but if u see, im not the only one against this pathetic rule.. just thing about this. ps: dont block/delete my comment plz, im just telling everyone what i think

MuscLe
15/04/2011 22:25:00

ZzdNk back in the business!

kaynerecord holder
15/04/2011 22:34:00

+1 kyser its obvious to see if its someone else who recorded it for someone, a wr is always a wr unless its cheated, and therefore it should be released here on xj, no matter if theres some bug with Steam that makes the SteamID unreadable.. :/

zzarecord holder Tournament #1 VIP
15/04/2011 22:37:00

should just accept memories demo, its a big loss if he stops recording for xj.. that rule is stupid and we all know he is capable of producing good times. the rule is just hindering improvements on maps and setting us back. btw what happened to cypeks demo? was it denied because there was another player alive or some other reason.. because there are quite a few demos with people alive like spr1ns redrock iirc.

Ovidiu Dumitru
15/04/2011 22:42:00

4-5 years ago XJ didn't have to deal with this http://xtreme-jumps.eu/warnings.php As the community gets bigger the risks get higher.

Memories
15/04/2011 22:42:00

http://www.mediafire.com/?825crepk1ksch02 <- For people that may think its not me, and some weird fat guy with glasses recorded it for me because i cant record this map. And this is problably the last demo you are going to see from me if this rule continiues.

shad182
15/04/2011 23:11:00

pkte!!!! n1 kSiunkaS i rly like ur style!

fel1x
16/04/2011 00:16:00

this rule is totally shit! Xtreme-jumps had always the goal to show the fastest runs in kz? The demo isnt cheated so just release it. It is a WR and if there is a chance that this wr is not from Memories than just check the style and you got an answer.

J!nX^
16/04/2011 00:42:00

There is no perfect solution for this but I think the current solution is probably the worst. What's worse? Accepting a possible fakedemo (methods to manually check this) or denying a fair and legit worldrecord? I checked both demo's of memories and they both have the same similarities. So if the only reason for the denial of memories' demo is the fact that you can't know for sure if it's actually memories... then it's xxx. How the hell can you deny a legit demo for a 1% chance it's done by another person, knowning that you are denying fair worldrecords 99% of the time. It's a trade-off but you guys are on the wrong side.

Gargoyle
16/04/2011 00:57:00

So as long as I submit two demos with similar styles the other demo can be recorded by someone else? Style isn't so hard to fake... People mimic great players because they feel like it's a better way of achieving your goal. True, the wr is a wr and it's not cheated which brings us to pure principal of bending rules. If they cave in on this Memories incident, who's next and how many?

WetDreams
16/04/2011 01:16:00

shit rules :) i support you memo very nice job for keyne and pizza

FLP
16/04/2011 01:25:00

kyser explained everything but I just want to add something.If guy with 0 wrs send you a demo with this bug you should reject it and if someone who have 1 wr or more(for example 7 wrs) send you demo with this bug you should check it to see if the styles of that guy and guy who have 7 wrs is similiar,If they are you should accept it.I think that this will be fair for players and admins because so far only the very known players had this problem with steam id.

sooshkarecord holder
16/04/2011 02:17:00

either way this rule is useless because nobody in their right mind would use a different steamid to impersonate somebody (knowing that they check for steamids). the first thing that a person who wants some1 to do a wr for them would do is give them their account if he has half a brain. anyways does it relaly matter if its memories or his grandma jumping? btw: faking a style in a wr would be a lot harder than faking it in a random run, because i assume people are way better with their own styles... "So as long as I submit two demos with similar styles the other demo can be recorded by someone else?" maybe style alone is not definite proof that it's him, but once again, it works both ways (different style is not definite proof that it's not him). then according to ur logic if memo gives his account to some guy and he records a demo with same steamid but a different style, then the demo shouldn't be under suspicion, because memo can just say "oh i wanted to try some1 elses style".

Kangg!
16/04/2011 02:33:00

novice and pizza <3

Metallica
16/04/2011 05:14:00

hola vengo a apoyar a memorias.

DeeDFTW!!
16/04/2011 07:45:00

g0zi gj for the first wr :P , also gj to pakT and delf1n

actepukc^
16/04/2011 09:31:00

awesome work boys :)

3ss
16/04/2011 11:04:00

kSiunkas gj, another wr. :)

Gargoyle
16/04/2011 11:18:00

Hii, you can't expect XJ to actually KNOW who's behind the keyboard. They merely expect the players to identify themselves from STEAMID. Memories could easilly let his brother sister mother father play his computer on his account and get the demo accepted. But only BY NAME is a weak identification since anyone can copy it. Think of steam ID being a drivers license, you can cheat it by giving you card (account to someone), but his face (style) looks different then the owners, which might get you busted. STEAM ID provides MUCH more information then just a name, information that you simply cannot duplicate... The way you are trying to identify is only by name: the drivers license would just say "Hi, I'm Memories". Makes no sense that anyone would trust it... And I still don't get your continuous attempts trying to argue that this is pointless because why would anyone give credit to someone else. It has happened ALOT of time already. And there are numerous occations in real life where people DON'T take credit for big things. Simply think about it....

finzer
16/04/2011 11:21:00

Memories & novice !

scmb
16/04/2011 13:20:00

Awesome runs novies,kraeft and akkord !

Smokijs
16/04/2011 13:40:00

akkord

WeBb
16/04/2011 14:26:00

ksiunkasftw!

zythH^ moviemaker
16/04/2011 14:43:00

kSiunkas new wr machine :D good job :D

PoshitO
16/04/2011 16:20:00

Lets suppose i recorded bkz_problock for memories, how am i going to know that the demo is going to bug, so it wont show memories steam ID. (and just think how many tries until the wr is achived)

Vee mapper VIP
16/04/2011 16:28:00

Amongst the people that had their demos denied, you were the only one making a huge deal out of it, [flag]ar[/flag] [b]Memories[/b], your friend [flag]ar[/flag] [b]buh[/b] recorded another one without saying a [b]word[/b] about it. Do we have to make a huge deal out of it? Yes, it's not your fault that the demo had no Steam ID, but it ain't ours as well. It's tiresome to answer to flame wars where people who don't even know what's going on post around. Is it really [b]that[/b] hard to just start a demo and stop it immediately to check if your connection to Steam is buggy? [b]buh[/b] did it, then he reconnected and it worked. But sure, let's make a big deal out of it.

kyser
16/04/2011 16:37:00

2 different persons Vee, simple as that.. the fact that buh hasnt complained means that anyone can complaint about this? lol to simple for you to talk about this, cuz u never had this bug in one of your wrs (i dont know if u really care about recording or not), but for someone who is active in the community and spend time trying maps for xj, probably its annoying. admit that the rule is a piece of shit and thats it.. we cant do anything to change it, only the staff, but it would be lame if you really thing this rule helps XJ to grow... jajaja

kyser
16/04/2011 16:38:00

[blockquote]but it would be lame if you really [b]thing[/b] this rule helps XJ to grow...[/blockquote] i meant think* .. sry

kaynerecord holder
16/04/2011 16:47:00

hi kyser

kyser
16/04/2011 16:48:00

hey dude :) to finish with this flame war as u call it Vee, why dont u make a poll so we can see general community opinion about this? :/ ... democracy ftw

Gargoyle
16/04/2011 18:30:00

kyser, sure thing. Should we they have done the exact same poll right after hel got banned for recording to someone else?

Gargoyle
16/04/2011 18:42:00

There's a / missing from the sentence, "Should we/they have..."

al1as
16/04/2011 19:17:00

[b]ZzdNk, Delf1n gJ!!![/b]

J!nX^
16/04/2011 20:06:00

[quote]STEAM ID provides MUCH more information then just a name, information that you simply cannot duplicate...[/quote] Of course steamid provides more information than just the name but you overvalue it. Again, look at what chrizzo said, it is just as easy to give your account to a stranger nowadays (since you can always get your account back via email) as it is to let the stranger change his nickname to yours. It's ok to use steamid as the source of identity, because that's how you ban people from the website/servers but you should get that information through the website/person, not from the demo. It's the price you need to pay for that information that is important here. To make that clear, XJ could install webcams in our bedrooms to check our identity... but they don't, why not? Because the cost is too high. It's the same situation here. The price you need to pay for that little piece of valuable(?) information is the denial of all the demos who don't have it. Are you prepared to pay that? Apparently you are. Is that the best solution? That's what we are discussing here. [quote] It's tiresome to answer to flame wars where people who don't even know what's going on post around.[/quote] Tiresome for you because you don't know how to approach these kind of situations or? Is chrizzzo included in 'people'? because he is obviously agreeing with these 'flamers'. It's a discussion where the ones who started it have any right to start it.

Gargoyle
16/04/2011 21:45:00

J!nX you're right about the overvalue, but I'm having a hard time believing that if Memories would get this green card it would stop there. Others would want it too and how far does this "trust" carry.

StarWars*1
16/04/2011 22:02:00

So, it's a meaningless rule imo:) Believe me , it's so f*cking easy not to get busted :) You can easily have a common STEAM ID with a person and share an ip. Just admit that this rule doesnt bring anything . 1 more thing: when someone records a demo and it contains no STEAM ID ; how the f*ck can he know that it will contain no steam id? recording all the day and all the night with cheats till demo will contain no steam id? common , give me a break:)

Gargoyle
16/04/2011 22:32:00

Starwars, you can check if you are having the bug by recording a 1 second demo and checking it with demolyser. Just like Vee said. If your steam id is bugged it will be bugged until you reset steam. It's not the demo that is bugged.

kyser
16/04/2011 22:39:00

its fucking lame to do that gargoyle.. its not supossed to happen.. come on dude, open your mind.. u dont have the need to check your steam every single time u want to record.. its pathetic

Vee mapper VIP
17/04/2011 00:12:00

Yes, [flag]de[/flag] [b]chrizZo[/b] is included in them.

Gargoyle
17/04/2011 00:22:00

kyser, yes you do if you want to be sure. Stop being lame yourself and open your DEMOLYSER.