Demochecker and Administration Team Update, New Bans, and More

By p0ker Tournament #2 VIP·

Dear community,

 

it has been a while since our last big community update. As some of you may have noticed, some of the behind-the-scenes investigations that have been happening for the past year have been recently leaking out. Nevertheless, I am here to share some details about them, without getting too much into the specifics, as well as our current stance on the situation.

I. Removed Head Demochecker Admin - skArp

Making this decision was not easy, and I will point a few of the reasons why:

- The majority of our democheckers agreed that skArp's original world records on one of our partner communities - cosy-climbing - suggest the usage of a cheating software.
- Head Administration also agrees that the behaviour is suspicious, and therefore it is enough evidence for us to remove skArp.
- Conflict of interest is also taken into consideration, because regardless of whether skArp was objective or not with certain suspicious people from the scene, this cannot be ignored when taking action against him.

Nevertheless, skArp, I publicly encourage you to defend your case. You will NOT be banned for the time being, because I will not ignore other evidence provided by some of the other democheckers suggesting your innocence. Of course, given that you are the main suspect, we will not share the details with you, but given your knowledge, you can figure this out on your own, and you can make a sound case for yourself.

However, providing this in-depth defense will not end the conversation. One of our Head Admins - g-Lp has been working on a new demo tool for the past few months. With time when it gets more solid updates, we will be able to also reach a more concrete solution. Until then, you will remain under investigation, and you can open up this investigation to the public yourself.

That means there is still a chance to clear your name, but for now, due to the current state of affairs of your case, it is only natural to remove you from the team. 

Furthermore, and I have never revealed this to you before, but since we are revealing some of the investigation process to the public, it would be only fair to mention it - this decision is not based on what just happened in the past 2-3 weeks. This was a long process that started way before you learned anything about it.

So, long story short:

skArp will be removed from his demo position due to majority vote. He will also remain under investigation until more data comes along, and he will also have the possibility to publicly prove his innocence, as long as he explains in detail to both us, and the community, why his records should be deemed clean.

II. New Head Demo Admin position:

For now we will not appoint a new head demo admin. Once we reach a decision, we will let everyone in a community update. 

III. Bibika's Permanent Ban

This has been also another long and arduous process. But I will spare the details and simply get straight to the point. Bibika will be permanently banned for the following reasons:

- Spreading cheats
- Excessive attempts of trolling both the demo team, and head administration

This should serve as a reminder not to waste our time when discussing serious matters such as cheating. Depending on how severe your attempt at misleading is, you can, as you just saw with Bibika , receive a permanent ban due to misbehaviour. So I urge everyone to think twice before attempting anything like that again.

IV. Cheating in Partner Communities' Public Servers Rules Update

We will be adding a new rule, effective today, in regards to cheating in public servers. 

 

Cheating in one of our partner communities' public servers will result in a one year ban. 
*This includes cheating on alt accounts, as long as there is solid proof about having a connection between your alt account and your main account.


Following this, CamelCloud will be banned from kreedz.com because of him having cheated in more than one partner community, as well as admitting to it.

We hope in the not-so-distant future to have a shared public banlist, with both the old bans and all online bans as well. But that may take a while before it gets updated. For now we will still keep track of this manually.



V. outside's Special In-person Live Check

 

Now, this topic is a bit different, since it is about one of the most controversial figures for the past few years - outside.

 

outside has likely had more checks than any other player in existence. Perhaps one day we will get into the details behind the different checking processes he already went through. However, what is important now is this next check, which I personally came up with.

For some further context, skArp came up with another special check recently which he will be allowed to share, but we will not take it into consideration, or any other checks from anyone else anymore. That is also because there'd be a clear conflict of interest doing this, regardless of how good his own check is. Either way, skArp, feel free to write in detail all the steps of the check, as well as all the evidence you have gathered. I demand this to be shared with everyone. 

So, the only check we will take into consideration from now on is the one down below:

Recently, ShoCk moved back to Russia, and this opened the opportunity to set up an in-person check of outside. 

Given how insistent outside has been to prove his innocence over the past few years, this will be the last and ultimate chance of him being able to prove that, because right now, he is a confirmed cheater who will NOT be unbanned.

The proposition of the check is simple, and it will follow these steps:

1. ShoCk will choose a a random location (could be a LAN café, or his own house) with a PC, keyboard, and a mouse of his choice. The PC will not have access to the internet at first. Preferrably, he will try to pick a similar mouse that outside has at home.
*ShoCk has access to the following mice: a semi-broken g400s, hyperx plusfire, g402, and potentially another zowie mouse.
*When it comes to keyboards: He has one mechanical oclick, and one membrane hyperx.
*Outside's current mouse is: g903. 

Depending on whether this check happens or not, we may adjust the peripherals to be as close as possible to what outside has.

2. ShoCk himself will record with his own phone, or camera, the place he has chosen, he will showcase that the PC doesn't have access to the internet, and he himself will first play favourite maps of outside's such as go_fastrun and fastrun. He will record demos on these maps in order to make sure that if any anomalies are also found on outside's demos, they can be properly tracked in ShoCk's demos as well.
3. After that, outside will come in-person, empty handed, all the while every single step from him entering the room, to playing, and then leaving it, will be live filmed. The only thing outside will be allowed to do is to simply sit down and play the game, while ShoCk will be both watching him and filming him. If any of these steps are not met, the check will be deemed as unreliable. He will be required to play for a relatively long session, up to 20-30 minutes on both maps, record his best times, and share the demos with both the democheckers AND the community. 
4. After that, they will turn on internet connection, and they will hop in an online server with a good anticheat such as Kreedz.ee's or KZ-Rush's. The same process will be repeated.
5. Next, outside will bring his own keyboard and mouse, and he will repeat steps 3. and 4.
*Excuses such as "I got used to ShoCk's setup, therefore I can't play that well on my own anymore" will not be accepted as valid points for poor display of gameplay.
6. Subsequently ShoCk himself will play with outside's own setup, and he will also repeat steps 3. and 4. 
7. We could potentially require for ShoCk to install a custom OS for a proper and secure installation of only one thing alone - CS 1.6. This is however not decided yet, and we will let you know if we do, or if it's even necessary for an additional step like that.
8. I encourage the community to come up with and suggest additional security measures, since there is still time to take this check to the next level.


What are the consequences of this in-person check?

I am personally willing to put my money where my mouth is, and I offer outside 200EUR for costs when it comes to getting to Moscow. I fully realize I may be scammed in the process, but I am willing to get concrete and solid proof, which then I can share with both administration and the community, therefore ending this dilemma once and for all, never to be touched again.

There is more context to this, however, because:

  • If outside refuses to do this check  - he will remain forever banned in kzcom.
  • If outside does the check, and fails to provide the same awe-inspiring ability to play like in his world records, or during some of his other demochecking processes, he will once again remain banned.
  • If outside successfully passes the check, he will still remain banned, for the reasons I'll explain down below:

    - The majority of our demo team, as well as administration, agree that outside had indeed installed a cheat back in 2021. Whether he knew of that or not, this is his own negligence and every player is responsible for his own attentiveness about such matters. We do not take into consideration lack of awareness by the players.
    - The majority of our demo team, as well as administration, believe that if you have a cheat installed on your PC, regardless of whether that gave you an advantage or not, it will be enough for a permanent ban, because it has an effect on your gameplay regardless.
    - On top of that, half of the demo team believe that he did in fact benefit from the cheat he used.
    - Furthermore, outside himself admitted to having installed the cheat, even though that apology was written by his friend brokoly.
    - Outside's new demos have been deemed suspicious enough by several democheckers as well, which is another reason that goes against his unban
    - There is another reason which will have to remain undisclosed for now. But it works against outside's favour, and it is related to his original ban from 2021.

With all of this being said, here's what we CAN promise outside in case he passes the check:

I will personally make an official statement apologizing to outside for doubting his current ability to play, and we will strongly defend that any of his recent records he did are indeed possible. We obviously cannot prove with this kind of check that all of his records are clean, but as long as the entire in-person process is shared to everyone, we could reach a potential agreement both within administration, and the community, for an unban in the upcoming 1-2 years. However, there still won't be a guarantee that he will be unbanned, given his original transgressions from 2021. Sometimes players are indeed skilled enough to pull off the impossible, but that doesn't mean we will close our eyes for what they have done in the past. 

In short, we will fully defend outside as playing cleanly in present time, but that would not yield an immediate unban, or if at all.

 

VI. brokoly's Case and Other Suspicious Cases

 

Recently I went in to investigate as to why brokoly was not affected by the cross-community ban rule.


This is where we will have to slow down a bit, since it will require more time to come up with a good solution for unresolved issues from the past, such as brokoly's case, who is banned to this day in cosy-climbing, but not in kreedz.com.

We will also tackle other suspicious players, be it new or old, but for that I ask you for your patience before doing a similar newspost like this one indicating further action (or lack thereof) towards brokoly and/or other players. 

VII. ShoCk Steps Down From the Head Manager Role

 

As you are aware, a few months ago ShoCk made a newspost effectively announcing that I will be the new Head Manager of this community, mostly because of ShoCk's inactivity. However, he wished to step down from his Head Manager role because he is not sure if he will have enough free time to continue act as a secondary Head Manager. Nevertheless, he will remain part of management as a Head Admin.

VIII. Cosy-Climbing Upcoming News

Soon, there will be other news in relation to Cosy-Climbing and kreedz.com. Once we sync up with the Cosy-Climbing administration, I will update this one as well with all the relevant facts.


Yours,

Kreedz.com

 

 

Comments

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sekai mapperrecord holder
02/02/2025 20:23:51

skarp, outside, bibika begone! I feel bad for camelcloud though, he's my friend, i believe he was just testing the capabilities of the modern server anticheat, not having an actual intention to gain advantage via using illegal game modifications, but rules are rules i suppose... I have mixed feelings about these news, but this is rather good than bad definitely. Thanks a lot, dear admins!

v0ql
16/02/2025 14:13:20

well, why you use hack and you know server have anticheat? <autism>

maiLyy mapper
02/02/2025 20:33:03

good job admin...bibika old school, I didn't expect it I'm your fan

ArvInD
02/02/2025 21:18:09

bibika ban is the most shocking. So, he just spread cheats and never actually cheated himself in his demos?

Stryker
02/02/2025 22:13:00

Okay, cosy and kreedz will unite under kreedz.com But, how about CC maps?

roundrecord holder Tournament #1
02/02/2025 22:40:58

Very good news. Unfortunately, the idea of outside’s check won’t become a reality because, as far as I know, outside is a NEET living in the Siberian wilderness in very low-income conditions. If this is correct, he will never be able to afford a trip to Moscow, even with a €200 support donation (which, by the way, would be nowhere near enough to cover such costs). Another reason is that, most likely, outside (as well as skarp, gus, and brokoly) barely ever leaves his room or interacts with real people aside from his parents, so expecting him to travel to Moscow and meeting up with 100kg 185cm beast who is eager to thoroughly examine him on video is simply unrealistic. That being said, I would definitely enjoy watching ShoCk embarrass himself on video with this whole scenario, but sadly, it won’t happen. So I believe we all are safe to ultimately say farewell to outside. No doubts skarp will eventually end up in the same point. As for Bibika, it’s been years since he degraded to a double-digit iq weed-addicted junkie with all the consequences that come with it. Glad to see he finally got what he was heading towards. Big thanks to p0ker, as this newspost does provide real answers to a lot of questions I’ve had for the community for a while.

FLP
03/02/2025 08:47:03

Bro you making it sound like Shock will do a prostate examination of outside

scrap3R`
06/02/2025 03:56:45

Haha, excellent presentation of thoughts. U always best on this. Btw living in the Siberian wilderness too so ez to test this hackerside guy if a get exact location.

surRendirecord holder
02/02/2025 22:46:50

Damn. The only thing I can do is praise all the effort you guys have been doing for kreedz.

BloLyrecord holder
03/02/2025 01:56:28

Anti cheating has always been a historical challenge, and it is the same in any game. Offline self verification is the last and most intuitive line of defense. But this also indicates that there is no concrete evidence to prove that the outside has cheated in the past one or two years, which is quite evident. This is not an easy problem to solve. Regardless of whether the offline self verification incident occurs or not, I think we should all know that cheating and cleanliness have been mixed together. Whether cheating or not, I think now, only everyone's own heart knows best

sekai mapperrecord holder
03/02/2025 09:40:32

No, there in fact is absolutely concrete and adamant evidence of outside cheating. I just don't know why he's always getting second chances. Perhaps because he had luck having his buddy skarp being the CEO of cosy for a few years and a head demo checker as well.

BloLyrecord holder
03/02/2025 11:33:33

Based on the understanding of this news, I think it should be due to insufficient evidence, otherwise offline self testimony is completely meaningless. Even if he succeeds, what can he prove? Why does the management apologize? This is all based on the fact that there is sufficient evidence to prove cheating outside.

random Tournament #3
03/02/2025 02:34:03

I don't play, but it was interesting to read and see what was going on

FLAMETHROWER
03/02/2025 02:40:00

even a day wont be enough to show an approximate lvl of skill on devices that clearly worse, but for the willingness and idea, respect to admin team

WOOFix
03/02/2025 02:46:06

Sad for CC …

DON_SIMON
03/02/2025 03:19:43

No comments.

_)_ Comment Banned
03/02/2025 05:47:23

Interesting post, so it turned out we were right long time ago when we said outside was cheating, he was banned, then deemed "clean" and said he is sorry for using hacks but "didn't know there were cheat software files in his cstrike folder" if i remember correctly from the cosy post. And it was skArp, his good mate who made all of that possible. Turned out they both cheated and are currently cheating (outside is mega obvious cheater, as some other players but i will not get into details, the whole world already knows the names). What bothers me the most is that people who are actively playing in present times, hacking, claiming they are NOT hacking but the demochecks and everything proves otherwise, they receive numerous unbans or chances to prove innocence even AFTER they were caught hacking on BOTH XJ and Cosy but people like FoF who actually made kreedz insanely popular, were active in lots of areas incl. tons of maps, tons of kreedz videos, he even created the SmooFoFer software which is still used to this day, had positive impact on the KZ scene but was permanently banned in "Cheating banned for life" series with no chance to redeem himself whatsoever, even though his cheated demos were recorded like 15 years ago?? And people who actively cheat right now and were caught numerous times are able to have the luxury of ShoCk's in person examination? Like wtf are you guys even up to? What more are you trying to do? Why are you giving obvious cheaters so many chances even engaging higher administration to inspect in person? outside is a little ungrateful person who instead of being thankful that admins gave him second (or third, idk anymore) chance and act with humbleness in pub servers and chatbox, he goes and shows how arrogant he is and tries to assert dominance in KZ scene? You do realize that many oldschool Kreedz players who were absolutely monsters (like shNz) are gone due to the excessive cheating in XJ (cosy is another topic, cheaters there are like x10 times more) and you are not taking the serious manners to fix the situation? I admire all the work g-Lp has put into this community because it is truly a lot and I respect him massively for keeping everything in the state it is right now. - ivansky

protoN
03/02/2025 06:08:57

People are too quick on hating. I Agree about FoF, he does deserve a second chance, and you are making a lot of good points, he would be a net positive to have in this community now in 2025.

protoN
03/02/2025 06:08:29

I think thats nice of Shock, to go out of his way to suggest something like this and for it to be fastrun and go_fastrun is perfect. Since thats exactly the kind of maps people seem to think is problematic. 2 frames that many jumps in a row is theoretically possible, but very difficult, let alone 54+ gain. But, because of the limits of current anticheats its hard to truly know when someone is really good or just cheating. Even if many think its unhuman. Thats why I am currently developing a client-side anticheat, because I love this community and its too hard to know these days, especially for people who put their hearts out trying to get as good as they can(myself included). And its also not fair for people who might geniounly be talented, but its hard to prove or disprove. And I think anticheat is going in the wrong direction, for instance kreedz.ee seem to be using statistical analysis to find outliers which can give false positives(dont get me wrong robyN has done a good job with that community), not a detection of an actual cheat with irrefusable evidence.

FLP
03/02/2025 09:19:57

First of all nothing but respect for everyone, especially Shock for putting their time and money in order to once for all come to conclusion about this outside saga. The only thing that I find wrong is, if he really comes and proves that he is actually as skilful in person as he is in his demos, why wait 1-2 years to unban him? He should be unbanned right away. I mean why even waste your time and money on doing this if he is not gonna get unbanned right away.... As I see it, if outside is clean, he is along with topovigys, and patchouli best player that ever played this game, and noone else comes close to them... Considering that patchouli's last wr was 4 years ago, and that topoviygus last wr was 8 months ago, why waste the opportunity to revive this community with the only active kz god? About the thing that he cheated in the past, well kayne also cheated, and then he was given another chance, and then he didn't cheat, and actually after Zhady, Shooting Star, Ndr, Shnz, Koukouz gave the most records to this community...

ShoCkrecord holder Tournament #2 VIP
03/02/2025 14:46:53

I'm not putting my money into this but I don't mind giving it a day

FLP
03/02/2025 20:53:50

Time is money brotha

ShoCkrecord holder Tournament #2 VIP
05/02/2025 14:23:32

tru3

Roadrunner mapper
03/02/2025 09:33:54

<deleted>

Roadrunner mapper
03/02/2025 11:40:17

Maybe if we stir up this drama enough Karl Jobst will make a documentary about it.

Ahful moviemaker
03/02/2025 14:47:08

While the reasoning behind it makes complete sense, CamelCloud's ban does seem like an overcorrection, especially if there's no real suspicion surrounding his actual accomplishments. If the goal is to maintain trust in the community, a long ban only really makes sense if people actually doubt his legitimacy, which they don't. Otherwise, it just feels like punishment for its own sake. A shorter ban (3 months?) would probably accomplish the goal of maintaining fairness without alienating people. CamelCloud has almost certainly learned his lesson already tbh, having people doubt your legitimate accomplishments because you did something dumb really sucks.

sajkee. mapperrecord holder
03/02/2025 19:54:16

Finally some news about that 'behind the scene' drama. Congratulations for Democheckers and good job! Since an admins need a years to end up with a newspot like this, I don't regret these cheaters not for a second. And a friendly advice, don't waste your money in a continent called Russia to see somebodies skills, they are visible through his demos :)

zmokiE
03/02/2025 20:48:04

Interesting stuff out here happened, haven't been here for 2 years, then maybe all previous cheaters lets give them a second - third chance, so unserious if cheater gets banned for cheats giving another chance to prove something. Of course none cheater will agree go to LAN.

zythH^ moviemaker
04/02/2025 13:20:10

It still surprises me that after so many years people are still willing to cheat on this old game instead of just having fun for the sake of it. Good job p0ker and the rest involved.

GoldenNinja
04/02/2025 17:36:02

Cheating in 25 years old game in a barely active, struggling to survive community? Whoever is doing it should get a job asap, no way you got time to grind WRs with cheats in 2025...

Stryker
05/02/2025 03:35:45

Exactly!!!

v0ql
17/02/2025 12:37:13

hns russia people

WispRO
05/02/2025 11:00:51

It's very nice that you guys are working to be 100% that someone is using cheats, it's nice to that you guys are taking care of this wonderful kreedz community, but please, eventhough he might not be around kreedz community anymore, just unban FoF. He cheated, that's not ok at all, but he also had good things that made kreedz community much popular and had a contribution for it's growth, so once again, please, reconsider your decision and please unban FoF!

Logitechhhhh
05/02/2025 15:42:55

When Topo cases and some Chinese cases? just askin.

nobody^
05/02/2025 17:49:54

ShoCk putting in more work for the kz community than most pigs in the Bulgarian parliament. Jokes aside, props to you guys for taking things so serious and putting in the effort needed. offtopic. vote for 2025 FoF unban, or atleast as a map-maker. He was really good.

Cobrex mapper Tournament #2
05/02/2025 18:58:58

<deleted>

Cobrex mapper Tournament #2
05/02/2025 19:14:46

by the way, I love you XJ :*

p0ker Tournament #2 VIP
05/02/2025 19:31:01

I think one fair to remember about past XJ decisions is that this community is pretty old and the overall administration has changed 6-7 times, or even more. It is unreasonable to expect the same decision to carry out throughout the years by different administration and people. If one day all of us are changed, the future administration may think entirely different and I think it wouldn't make sense to judge them according to what we decided to do in 2025.

_)_ Comment Banned
05/02/2025 20:11:41

As I see in the comments another likeminded people stated some good points in defense of FoF. He was truly inspirational and honestly was the reason why many players started playing KZ, making maps and movies as well. At least for me he was at the top spot with oTcHeTo and sPADER. I will say something that probably will bring a lot of hate on my name (like i care at this point tbh) but I am saying it. If the rules are same for all, ban reasons and whatsoever, fame (RIP to him) should be permanently banned too. He submitted cheated demos to XJ which got accepted "to prove a point". I can give an example on why he was low tier demo checker logicwise. Of course he had great skills and knowledge about checking demos, but if something didn't go his way, he would do stupid stuff. An example: 2012 me and one slovak player Cetys0r trolled kzsk site and we swapped steam accounts, he went to spectate me and i recorded 256LJ, 243HJ, 245 bhop, 266CJ and i think 271 WJ. Some of these demos were top1 rank by that time if i remember correctly. 5 years pass by and i had information that Cetys0r demos were under fame's watch (and other admins) who simply did not believe that he was such skilled to make the records himself. Fame said it was either someone else playing or the demos were recorded with MSL, so i asked if they didn't find out it was me what was the next step, he confirmed that Cetys would be banned for MSL in the LJ demos, when in reality demos were 100% clean and I have never ever cheated on any demo in my whole life, and i was shocked to understand that they would just simply ban him because of disbelief in his lj skills. I wonder how many other players had similar faith. I think fame's work and every Russian/Ukrainian admin's actions should be double checked because they honestly are doing very fishy job. Good with technical stuff but also doing bullcrap sometimes. There are some obvious players who are 100% using hacks, some from Russia, some from Asia, ban of which would cause KZ activity to "collapse" as they are the main playerbase that forms XJ's activity.

Cobrex mapper Tournament #2
05/02/2025 21:26:03

<deleted>

memekrecord holder
15/02/2025 21:46:00

I wish ShoCk watched me grinding that 274 back in the days... anyway, I like the no mercy policy for cheaters! wp

sooshkarecord holder
27/02/2025 00:10:28

"1. ge ShoCk will choose a a random location (could be a LAN café, or his own house) with a PC, keyboard, and a mouse of his choice. The PC will not have access to the internet at first. Preferrably, he will try to pick a similar mouse that outside has at home." Really good idea of this in-person live check thing. I believe I suggested something like this in the past (at least informally on a server like kz-endo).