2 New Maps

By faker mapper·
Hi guys,

I guess this news is a pretty big surprise for you ;)

kz_starwars_deeja by Angie
kz_kzdk_tropicisland by rad0n

We've decided to change our maprelease policy! There will be more mapreleases in the future: Whenever there are new and accepted maps there will be a release, too. Some of the mappers complained about the long timeperiod they had to wait for the release, so we tryed to find a better solution for the whole situation ;)

So stay tuned for new maps. You can never be sure if the next release is going to happen tomorrow :)

have fun :x

Comments

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SSJGoku
18/02/2007 19:51:00

1st NICE :))

Z0ck3rOO7
18/02/2007 19:52:00

GJ, gonna test them now :D already <3 StarWars :D

soul v2.0 mapper
18/02/2007 19:53:00

!

sbzvln Tournament #2
18/02/2007 19:53:00

Very nice, cuz that times were really too long:) gonna play maps now

Max:
18/02/2007 19:53:00

Gj :)

z10
18/02/2007 19:56:00

n1 gJ

faker mapper
18/02/2007 19:56:00

Welcome back Angie :) Very lovely map, even though u need a Core 2 Duo for 100 fps (getting one of them, soon) :D And gj @ rad0n ofc. Nice speedmap :)

AverageFreak
18/02/2007 19:58:00

It is. Thanks <3

AverageFreak
18/02/2007 19:59:00

what an inspirator this new release rule is <3 Im back in business! :D (sorry for spam)

PrEn1uMz
18/02/2007 20:01:00

good job

hiGGe
18/02/2007 20:05:00

nice.. cant wait that tropiclimb_xp radon ^^

sbzvln Tournament #2
18/02/2007 20:08:00

Both good maps but too low fps for me ><

Joko
18/02/2007 20:29:00

How many easter eggs did u find? I found 2^^

Fatalis
18/02/2007 20:36:00

gg 40fps @ starwars. learn to optimize maps k thx

rinkon mapper
18/02/2007 20:41:00

omg <3 angie... better finish those other starwars maps :D

JohnnyB mapper
18/02/2007 20:53:00

Sorry but the fps is horrible on the star wars map.

s0liD mapper
18/02/2007 21:12:00

nice maps guys!

stinnZ mapper
18/02/2007 21:16:00

GJ very good map but unseept fps I got 40 fps at angies map and in tropiclimb at someplace I got 70 - 80 fps :o

akM
18/02/2007 21:26:00

gj! ^^

sambb
18/02/2007 22:08:00

Horrible maps for my pc -.-

liKo mapper
18/02/2007 22:31:00

Not bad, in rad0ns map i have 100fps everywhere and angies map not bad, but in same places 60-70fps but its not bad - map looking very nice :) gj

Volsfootball
18/02/2007 22:41:00

OMG YES! THX FAKER!

kewl mapper
18/02/2007 22:42:00

gjj

icky
18/02/2007 22:44:00

^_^

raYLa
18/02/2007 22:55:00

I have already set my graphic-card performance settings to maxmimum, but I partially get less than 40 fps at the starwars map. No offence, it is a very nice looking, short and decent map, but seriously, isn't there a way to make the map running well on average computers, too? I have no chance to try a record on that map though... therefore I simply hate it -.- Have fun to the people having an ownage computer... I only hope the maps will no splitt into a "not playable" and a "playable" section...

BooLiSH
18/02/2007 23:28:00

h3h3 rayla^^ nice maps...GJ (will test the fps now, but dont think it'll be higher than at ur pc's)

BooLiSH
18/02/2007 23:44:00

well... after playing starwars... i had fps from 25 to 100 *lol* the features are nice, but i had no real starwars feeling while i was climebing

Murvelman
18/02/2007 23:53:00

Nice, i was very surprised and happy to see 2 new maps :D I hope the FPS isn't gonna be to big a problem

dEMolite mapper
19/02/2007 00:13:00

Sorry but the onliest good map from the release is the map from radon. Cause he made everything in the mapping theory that made a map good. But now angies map its looks good but its needs more tweaking. Cause its the second map from her and both are fps laggy. U need to work more with hint skip null textures and u need to work more with func_walls and u have done a big mistake too. Cause u used Prefabs and thats bad! Cause Prefabs aren't really mapped good. I hope that xj revers the map for optimizing.

omilo
19/02/2007 00:33:00

Hope to see new maps every week now !! :)

maxeh
19/02/2007 00:35:00

"what an inspirator this new release rule is <3 Im back in business! (sorry for spam)" That 4 year old kzmaps policy! What an inspiration ;)

faker mapper
19/02/2007 00:48:00

[b]kz_kzdk_tropicisland[/b] It's just looking awesome... like paradise. That theme/look is unique and was never used before. The details, like the sinking raft at the start are nice, too. The jumps are a mixture of normal climb elements, bhop stages and some block levels. The whole map is a very nice speedmap (like darkmine, which is very short too) and people will fight for every second. [b]kz_starwars_deeja [/b] This map is probably the kz_ map with the worst fps ever. Even though the most of you guys might have 50-75 fps most of the time, the average fps of a normal climbdemo are round about 90 or higher. People with better computers got 100.0, tho. The policy that low FPS maps won't be accepted is still alive, but for big and great maps there are and there will be exceptions (just try to get all those moving X-Wings in 1 map). Just some information... cause some of you guys are searching so desperately for some reasons why those 2 maps got kz'ed

Murvelman
19/02/2007 00:54:00

faker i only see one moving object and that's a Tie-Fighter o_O :D :D :D

faker mapper
19/02/2007 00:56:00

Whatever... I'm not a starwars expert :( :D

Volsfootball
19/02/2007 02:14:00

Eh. .. im not a big fan of the new maps. . .just me. :(

eiRa mapper
19/02/2007 03:56:00

6k wpoly fvck me

hiGGe
19/02/2007 04:31:00

that nigga bitch in the bar got wide pussy.. also not shaved :(

SoUlFaThEr mapper
19/02/2007 08:09:00

im garaunteeing that maost of her vertices are off the grid and thats causing most of the fps problems.....all the maps ive seen in hammer of angies....were super nice looking....but not playable. she got a lot ideas too and fantasy.

Scary Tournament #2
19/02/2007 09:16:00

SoUlFaThEr can't you help her or something? Because it's very beautiful the map, one of the most beautiful, but it just can't be played. It's so sad.

gangien mapper
19/02/2007 11:02:00

OK, about soulfather.. I've heard some interesting things about you and i've given you the benefit of the doubt, but now I have a few things against you. You came in awhile back on KZmaps talking shit out of your ass, about how you made kz maps or something to that effect. Please, your 5 maps or whatever made the kz tag? Kreedz made it, plain and simple. You may have helped the kz tag, but you did not make it. (the good stuff has been deleted but http://www.kzmaps.eu/e107_plugins/chatbox_menu/chat.php?120) Your control grabs, wanting to control pretty much everything, which is apparent from just reading what you post in the public. But also here stuff from other people, it becomes completely believeable. (Hard to cite this but, look at his public postings) The whole thing over the cursed tomb map, was well pretty pathetic. Angie made the god damned map, you may have helped but don't take fucking credit. (http://xtreme-jumps.eu/comment.php?comment.news.147) And now this whole fortress thing, your damn map looks EXACTLY like her old map. (http://gangien.com/images/kz_magical_castle.jpg compare to http://kzmod.com/e107_plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=kz_fortress%2Aby%2ASoUlFaThER%2Fkz_fort3.jpg) and she never said you could use it, according to her. You don't even give her any credit at all as far as I can see, except in the chatbox post. And one last thing, and this is nit picking/bitching about stupid shit on my part, but it irked me. Please don't correct me when You're wrong. Dll stands for dynamic link library. There are basically 2 types of libraries, dynamically linked and statically linked. Statically linked libraries are linked in at compile time, and don't require any external depencies to be present on the system. The advantage of that is no external depencies, disadvangtage being if 5000 binaries require the same library, then you have all those binaries taking up a lot of unessary space. Atleast those are the main reasons. And most other OSes besides windows hardly differenate between them. Linux, Solaris, Aix, HP-UX and z/OS I know all offhand, use the convention of the having the prefix lib to their libs, and differ from static/dynamic by their extension. (http://xtreme-jumps.eu/comment.php?comment.news.252 and http://www.ilkda.com/compile/Static_Versus_Dynamic.htm) I have no respect for you anymore. I have plenty of first hand information now, not really relying on Angie or anyone else. Hopefully that all is reasonably understandable.

gangien mapper
19/02/2007 11:17:00

I fucked up the kzmod links, here they are http://gangien.com/images/kz_magical_castle.jpg compare to http://kzmod.com/e107_plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=kz_fortress%2Aby%2ASoUlFaThER%2Fkz_fort3.jpg And where do you get off calling angie a bad mapper anyways? 'Your' kzmod fucked up my hl2 installation, and your man_dreaming map crashes my cs. And your maps are not exactly stellar. (I'm not saying I'm better, I'm not at all, sf pwnz me at mapping) no preview option.

Fliborecord holder Tournament #2
19/02/2007 12:03:00

gangien, i like you. though dreaming is one of my favorite maps :P

maxeh
19/02/2007 12:46:00

hear hear!

HoHo^
19/02/2007 13:32:00

30-100fps @ kz_starwars_deeja :( But it is a very nice map. <3 kz_kzdk_tropicisland

MC-Sk8r
19/02/2007 13:39:00

lol gangien, quality mate quality :D!!

s0liD mapper
19/02/2007 14:49:00

gangien stop this shit.. I saw somewhere credit given to angie for that fortress map..

faker mapper
19/02/2007 15:33:00

Why stop this? If that is true, and I don't think Angie got a reason to lie about that, this is pretty scandalous. Copying/Converting a map without asking for permission is pretty lame -.-

waRi mapper
19/02/2007 15:53:00

I have alot of respect 4 Angie (cursed tomb is 1 of my all time favorites along with climbers_b01 and cathedral)... but i was really dissapointed with the starwars map : (... made in a damm rush imo; a good starwars map should take ages to develop correctly... wtf i'm sure you agree : ) anyway the lag can be fixed easy i'm sure... its a small map ffs !!!!!! Angie ! take the map back and work on it, what would be wrong with doign that... it's not like kz community is desperate for new maps ^^ you can do 1000 times better imo <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 ! (ok... i'll stfu now)

faker mapper
19/02/2007 15:57:00

waRi: I played different betas of the map and Angie tryed a lot of things before the map got released. She said she can't make the FPS better... Anyway... feel free to contact her in IRC, maybe you find a solution. If there will be a better version within the next days we'll update the download of course.

waRi mapper
19/02/2007 16:19:00

faker all this is no big deal... alot of kz maps lag : ) The map is good and alot of guys like it so GJ... just that i was expecting something as good as cursed_tomb... Anyway I hope Angie stays around and makes more kz maps ! : D

moriaX
19/02/2007 16:56:00

the starwars map is realy nice :)

Frei mapper
19/02/2007 17:50:00

"She said she can't make the FPS better..." She can ! If she remove his func_water and her func_wall mapping ^^ (the func_wall remove the shadow of your block and increase the lag. The func_wall are your ennemy ;)

Guenhwyvar
19/02/2007 19:13:00

[b]kz_starwars_deeja[/b] looks really great, but could be more jumps/a longer path to top. but the design is really good. [b]kzdk_tropicisland[/b] looks nice, too, but really disappointing, this is no kreedz-map (and disappointing from xj as well for kz'ing it). The interview with Kreedz himself isn't so long ago, you should remember what he said about kz-maps (playable for beginners, getting harder to the end). Show me the beginners which make the first and second bhop section.

gangien mapper
19/02/2007 20:13:00

s0liD: you are missing the point. She gave him an RMF to show him how she did something(or a similar reason, I dunno exactly why), and he took it and used it without her permission. That's pretty much stealing. That's unacceptable and he's not some fucking kid like so many of the people here, so I can't just half way forgive him for being naive. And feel free to ask her, i don't think she wants to post about it, but i'm not pulling this shit out of my ass.

s0liD mapper
19/02/2007 21:20:00

ok gaingien u did metion the part : She gave him an RMF to show him how she did something.. Now its totaly something different.. Yup thats badd =(

gangien mapper
19/02/2007 22:19:00

ye sorry, i should have explained that better.

balky mapper Tournament #1
20/02/2007 11:36:00

gj the both maps are cool only Angie map have small fps like 20 - 80 (form e) :D and faker see kz_toscana fps :)

Fliborecord holder Tournament #2
21/02/2007 20:31:00

80% of X-J are kids! (like me :()

SoUlFaThEr mapper
21/02/2007 21:19:00

ok I'll calmly defend myself. Some of the things you say are not true and I would even agree to talk to Angie again to settle the "map stealing" thing. "i made kzmaps??" umn sorry pal...I never stated that i personally made kzmaps. first, kreedz made kz. second sk8r and his mates made kzmaps.co.uk i simply a later addition mostly becasue of my mapping konwledge. I had already made 4o fullscale tactical maps for CS and a few other games. I loved the concept and set out to improve the mapper quality, helping anyone who wanted it. is that a bad thing? ask any mapper who asked me to help them how i went along with them. you know a few whom ive helped. rad0n being one of them at the beginning along with yerself as you know. I showed his FPS on his kz_bridge map...how to look for them...how to solve them, how to build things more efficiently for the engine rendering. well....i never said i made kz...you misinterpreted something there. The tomb: I never said I made the whole map. I did exactly what I did to it: I split the map into 2 halves because at first when she submitted it, it was one big open map...running 5000wPoly. I cut it in half to achive better frames(down to just over 1000. It did not terribly hurt the design and was still loved. I had only asked that my name go in it as help. I never said directly that i made that map. I didn't make it, I made it playable in reference to FPS only. That release problem and angie apparently twisting us all up by giving all of us version of that map.....only made things worse. It made none of you guys like me for some reason and my original intent was to help her great map with the frames. How this intention tunrs a few people against me i dont konw...but that map was fuckin playable :) The castle map/ kz_fortress for kzmod: When I was having conversations with Angie and joining her server to test her rollercoaster map(she must remember this one)....she later invited me to her site that had all her uploaded maps on it that "will never get released". When i saw those things...totally wicked looking stuff that NEEDED to be played because it was so great looking. I begged her to release them and if they had FPS problems i would surely help solve them. at some point she said take one becasue i had plans to do kzmod...and had asked her if she wanted to map for it. I chose the castle map and promised her Credit. She was given credit 2 times in the mod for that map. look here man: taken directly out of the readme for kzmod (anyone who has it acan look for proof...it was given to you a year ago): [i]"Thanks to Pierre Marie Baty for the base structure of the 1.6 map kz_cathedral which was again remade for the mod. Also thanks to Angie for allowing me to convert her fantasy castle into a kzmod map and to Kreedz for giving me the source file to kz_exn_ezjungle which I turned into kz_cliffhanger."[/i] The second place she got credit "FOR THE BASE MAP" was in the map sign right above the starttimer and on the floor inside the castle walls. if you take a real good look at the readme for kzmod....i personally give credit to anyone who ever touched anything dealing with the kzmod. I always give credit.....look at any of my own maps where someone else made somthin for them...the onyl thing i could never give credit for...was the gargoyle models of kz_man_madness. no idea who made them. I am the last person to ever steal anyones work Gangien. The stuff about Angies "i cant get fps better" is only becasue she doesnt understand it. I tried back then to explain to her but she didnt want to hear it becasue her main thing....is the look. she said she likes to design just to see what she sees in her minds ideas. she not worried about playability like most mappers are. This is at all the reason why i fixed tomb. It a basic design problem in her thinking...which of you mappers who want a playable map will have the entire map open and visible...that USES THE ENTIRE HAMMER GRID !!! i konw you would never think of it....she didnt, so I heped her....she thanked me a lot back then and did not complain about what i fixed. OR...you guys want something that actually wasnt meant to be played. theres 2 ways to see this. I dont remember ever having a problem with Angie at all. Gangien some of the things you mention about her...you were not there and cant even begin to know what was in our conversations. stop right now calling me a map thief. kz_man_dreaming: That concept was totally original and hard to put into the scene properly. it had problems with the teleports and your nonsolid plugins. any other problems are you server configuration somehow becasue there are also many servers who run the map with no problem. it worked on the excaliber server for a year straight and no one complained....it worked elsewhere too. Control Freak: I dont want control man truthfully. I want it to run without social problems in the admin level. I'm 37 years old and some of the headgames you guys play with each other is funny...and ruins people that might otherwise be good for this community. I have always thought about the community wether i made 50 million maps or not. I helped so many people become better mappers. My intentions are positive energy influence. some of yxou just decide to hate me maybe. But i am still pushing this community into the media. albeit through kzmod atm. I attracted the attention of Valve who helped us lift some coding problems with their senior engineer. does he care if im control hungry? no. he sees me as someone who is MAKING AN ENTIRE GAME with an original concept. he wanted to help that. We were in the 4 biggest game magazines, and i got interviewed on TV. this was a one hour game presentation on TV that drew a lot of people into the scene, and not only for kzmod. I mention the 1.6 faktion whereever i go. I include all the active sites that make moves into each and evfery map in kzmod....that means i support all of you. that doesnt mean im trying to control anyone or anything. my motivation to get moxx and Oddy to merge into one site was to avoid the competition between sites which sort of hard its dealings when some of the major people just left the scene like sk8r and Bambi for example including kreedz himself. in their absense...everyone else was like omg.....but still pressed on. i simply had extensive talks with both and an agreement was met. i never tried to take complete control of the scene...who the fuck do you think I am? ive been working on kzmod for over 2 years now.....im not trying to take over anything...im making a game. AND i have given kreedz full credit for the concept. now that the concept of the game is changing to much more than just jumping when beta2 scomes....the concept has changed. im still calling it kreedz climbing no matter what. i feel attached to this community and have actually only done good things for it so far. there are always moments in a 5 years involvement span....where some ugly interactions come into play....thats normal...dont hold 1 bad thing against me personally. last thing on Angie: I NEVER CALLED ANGIE A BAD MAPPER. i said she has amazing ideas and really puts them in the atmosphere of the map....but she doesnt know how to make them fps friendly and playable. thats it friend. nothing bad!!! damn stop interpreting everything i say in a negative sense. how can you take 2 compliments and one bad aspect as being "telling her shes sucks at mapping". end of case pal....i did nothing but compliment her back then as well. if she forgets this ..well....is that my fault? @sk8r: quality mate yeah quality. That is what I deliver :) If I didn't it would still be just jump maps. i hope those who thought im stealing maps from people without giving credit is cleared up. for me, thats a fuckin serious accusation and it just not my style. if i dont write dcredit in some sites chatbox or forum...that doesnt mean theres no official type of credit being given Gangien. the pproof was delivered a year ago to, now, well over 100,000 people netwide who downloaded kzmod and read the credits in the readme. my readme is longer than most mods readme's becasue i included everyone. man :(

SoUlFaThEr mapper
21/02/2007 21:26:00

oh...and youll notice the heavy desgn differences of the fortress map too. she must still have her RMF of it(my version got lost in my crash) Gangien if you want to actually see that i really did have to put all the vertices of that map back on the grid (you know this problem with vis with bad vertice work).....and can see how i literally rebuilt the thing....then i would be glad to set up a date with you to show both the RMF and the VMF so you can compare im so serious about freeing my name that ill do that. ive done nothing wrong and ive spoken the truth. contact me with ANGIES MAP in the title: [email protected] thanks dude :) Id really appreciate it if we could finally clear this angie mapping thing once and for all...even with angie if she agrees. its not right what you accuse :(

SoUlFaThEr mapper
21/02/2007 21:31:00

SoUlFaThEr | 19 Feb : 08:09 Comments: 68 Registered: 17 Dec : 21:03 im garaunteeing that maost of her vertices are off the grid and thats causing most of the fps problems.....all the maps ive seen in hammer of angies....were super nice looking....but not playable. she got a lot ideas too and fantasy.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
21/02/2007 21:31:00

does that read: Angie is a bad maper, signed, soulfather?

insen mapper
21/02/2007 22:15:00

soulfathers right dont talk so much crap man hes really kind and just tries to help people and some fools cant accept it or dont want to understand it thats really pity :(

gangien mapper
22/02/2007 00:13:00

it's really to bad kzmaps deleted the post SF made, "you actualy dont ahve the right to take that from me sk8r put it back please" to bad the good stuff was deleted. Unless SoUlFaThEr registered over there, isn't you? And go read about the cursed tomb article i linked. Giving credit and being in control are 2 different things. You're critizing her 'mapping ability' in public, at the very least that's belittling. (in sort of a 'aww look at the little kiddies playing' type of way) And her maps were playable dude. On my old computer when i saw the changes you made to the cursed tomb map, my FPS went from 40 to 50. That's nice and all, but ... that's not the end of the world. So maybe for a few people raised the bar from not playable to playable, but not a whole lot. You know what, she could be lying or being forgetful or whatever or you could be lying, I don't know, YOU didn't say map by sf and angie or anything, you said by sf. No matter how much tweeking you did, the end result is it's still her map, tweeked by sf. Unless angie said "take this map and don't give me credit or put my name anywhere," IMO you stole it. I'm not arguing that you haven't done a ton of work. Angie also said she was going to post about it, if someone else did. She hasn't so I'm ticked off about that as well. Either way, all these opinions are based on what I know. I'm not going off of 'he said, she said'. InseN: I know he's helped people, he's helped me. I've even defended him (in a ts server with a couple people there). But just because you help sick puppies, doesn't make it ok to go and kick dogs. Which is a bad analogy but, oh well. Here's an analogy to what has happened, say in the early days of the computers, I make a program called calculator. SOmeone else takes it (with or without my permission, it's not relevant for this argument), slightly modifies it, maybe makes it twice as fast makes some of the buttons look slightly better. I excpect credit to be given to me as being a co-author.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 00:46:00

if i give credit to anyone in a map.....that means they got credit. no matter HOW THEY GOT IT...THEY GOT IT...and from me....they got it for exactly what they did. she built the sbase design for what i turned into kz_fortress. period. i gave plenty of credit for her in many places. base design.....that is what she did in that map for me.....the base design.....all the details we me...the reworking...the lighjting.....the fps imrpovements the alignment of textures even and complete retexture plus about 500 jumps were my work. for me...thats about 80% of the job as a piece of work. i made most...she made the base. work for a game company as a mapper and you will see that there are mappers who make base structure and those mappers who make that shit look good....and there are those mappers who make that shit fps playable.....the works is spread through different peoples strengths and weaknesses. me and angie make a good team and i told her this. thats why many make mixed maps becasue its fun to work with other on a project. but you gangien, admit that i have helped you...and still courage through in your attempt to make me look bad :) nice thing...ill bite the next guy that teaches me something to aso i can grow up to be just like you. the bit about slamming her in public dude...gimme a fuckin break.....i didnt slam here....i only stated what i thought would most likely be the problem with the MAP NOT HER AS A PERSON DAMMIT....judgung this only from the multiple maps ive seen her make....and they all had BAD vertice work :( she not a vertice mapper....she a look mapper thats not a slam at all man...those are attributes of a designer kid....open your eyes outside of kz dammit...the world offers more. anyway...im mostly curious why you seem to feel it necessary to attack me in her map release thread.....i come back to defend myself. this is wrong :) who is giving you this animosity suddenly??? dropsys? sk8r? you are also calling up a year old topic. i thought it was settled/forgotten back then as you said "its over" but i guess its not right...lets chew this cud some more so soulfather can...once again...prove you wrong. you will have to grow a few years older to stand in shoes that fit me dude. dont slam those who help you. its not wise to burn your bridges. if someone never wanted my help for mapping....they should not have asked for it. about that kzmaps post i wrote. that was conveniently erased by sk8r. i wrote something there totally normal...wasnt attacking anyone wasnt saying anything derrogatory....normal shit man dropsys appeared and slammed the shit out of me for no reason and did it pretty hardcore as well. (im the reason why kzmod died...and yep it sure is dead with beta2 coming to your door soon right?) i replied to this becasue it was out of the blue and the attack was unnecessary..he swore at me a lot and called me fucker and other shit my replies got erased....so dropsys can look good at slamming me for no reason...that was sk8r....lets make sf look bad...ok lets go everywhere esle too where we can and just make sf look bad...like here gangien...look at maxeh and sk8r reaction to your post..... they love it. cheers now you look like a good guy for their hate sf fan club :) have fun....maybe ill join...not. you lost repsect for no reason man...you dont spend 5 minutes in any month with me so how can u lose respect of of some shit thats not even true.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 00:57:00

whatever you say...im done here...ive said my point and if you personally dont get it...so shall it be that you have no respect for someone you dont actually konw so that doesnt mean very much to me. if i had known you and you had knownw me well.....you would never bring this shit up...becasue you would know thats not how i operate...stealing peoples work. i do actual nothing but help people man...see it....ask around. get to konw me too.....before you attack like this....you cant ruin my rep dude no way :) peace out yall :)

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 00:58:00

Comments: 216 Registered: 02 Jun : 02:52 SoUlFaThEr can't you help her or something? Because it's very beautiful the map, one of the most beautiful, but it just can't be played. It's so sad. why does scary know what i really do with people with map problems? have i stolen any of thier wrok.....?

insen mapper
22/02/2007 01:05:00

oh man gangien you are only talking BULLSHIT the first thing u can do is not eating 10 burgers each day hahaha :D that would be a great begin u r just a ridiculous fool man and when i say somebody cant map then he cant map i also can say man i hate u u are such a butthead or whatever i dont know what the basic law in us is but i think u never heard something about freedom of speech or other things(ah i forgot u live in usa with the jewmaster bush sry) u r jut a lil fat kid that dont know what he does soulfather doesnt do anything he only helped ppl and dont steal anything imo ur head had been stolen thats y u talk so much crap man so now go out of my way and die plz

MilletGtR
22/02/2007 01:12:00

gangien, i suppose you are not interested in reading what soulfathers defending himself with? THAT is the least you can do.. Alot of the things you said would have been clear if you would have taken the time to read what he said. Soulfather and I spoke personally at the time when he got the green light to convert angies map into a map for kzmod. I do not know where you got your information about soulfather [u]unapprovally[/u] taking angies map, wether its a part of some conspiracy or you heard it from angie herself, and converting it for kzmod. I for one know soulfather [b]so[/b] well that I know he is not lying about anything. He is not that type. If its so unclear, go speak to angie herself for real. have her state her opinion right here. About credit: As soulfather said in his post that he thanked angie two times for the map: 1. Taken from the readme file: Also thanks to Angie for allowing me to convert her fantasy castle into a kzmod map... 2. Theres a sign in the map that gives credits to angie. Check for yourself.. Now if soulfather helped angie make her map even more playable, would it have been better if he didnt?? I doubt that. I do not understand why you are picking on soulfather, he is trying to help people create, help people make better maps so everyone can jump with better circumstanses. He has spent MANY (probably more than thousands of em) hours only helping people out. And for what? You stepping on him saying its not enough.... I am forever thankful for the help i got from soulfather when i were a newbie to this whole thing of mapping. He never did anything to me that im angry at him for, nor did he steal anything from me. Its like this with everyone else soulfather has helped. But is any of this at your 'news'? no.. You simply want to select the worst parts that most of them arent even true. Kind of like these gossip magazines, tweaking of the truth. I have known and spoken to soulfather for like 2 years regularly. I even know him better than I know most of my friends. In this time I have learnt quite a few things about soulfather, qualities than ive seen in no other man. These accusations and discriptions you try to force soulfathers way, just doesn't fit on him.

gangien mapper
22/02/2007 02:00:00

I've stated my opinion, I think the person who comes up with the idea and implements the base should be cited as author. You don't think that? fine, I think that's pretty much stealing. I have stated things that have happened and given some opinion on them. I even cited my sources for the most part. Why? because what I think you've done is _WRONG_. If that makes you look bad, so? I think it's wrong. There's plenty of other people I don't like in the kz and other communities, but I don't flame them or publicly talk shit about them. sudden animosity? no one is. I wouldn't posted all this if I had no evidence that I saw with my own eyes. sk8r has never said anything bad about you, as far as I know even. Yes I'm old issues because.. I made a statement, that I have no respect for you (which really isn't accurate, I should have said, no respect for you as a leader of kz community), and I stated why. The only thing age has to do with this, is that I think you're old enough to know that some of the things you're doing are not right. I'm 25, I have a full time job my own place to live, I'm financially independent. I'm an adult, as so are you. ANd thats another reason i made this post. dropsys was being an asshole, yep. I don't think what they erased made you look bad though. I think what you and dropsys posted made you both look bad, and they erased the parts that made you look worse, IMO. InseN: wow. jewmaster, wow. MilletGtR: I read and i responded. If you read my post, you'll see exactly WHY i say that he stole it. There's a difference between stating "its someone's map" and "someone helped" See here's the problem I don't think he's trying to help I think he's trying to basically steal credit. which, again I think is _WRONG_, despite having helped people or otherwise. ANd he may not trying to be, I dunno. I think the end result is he has.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 03:56:00

if i gave credit in any way shape or form what would you call it?? steakling would mena I dont give credit and tel everyone i made it myself with no help....THEN and only then it would be like stealing. but instread its been properly credited, hence....it is only an opinion of yours thats upsetting you about this....pertaining to HOW i gave credit. i can accept that, but not when you sit here and tell XJ im a map thief, you are out of line with your "opinion". no one here can see why i stole it if i gave credit man drop it. case closed right? nice :D peace is more fun buddy. respect or not. if anything dont respect me for a leader here.....respect me for what i have done here in this scene. would have been much different if you had known me as a person lol...thats what millet is trying to tell you i guess.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 03:59:00

also: interesting to know that half the people who got credit with work on kzmod.......have long since left it and even partially tried ta fuck me over. i still gave them credit for their work becasue i dont hold grudges.

angie mapper
22/02/2007 06:27:00

Hi, I’d like to make some clarifications with regard to the above posts. I will try to start with the beginning. I started play CS, as many of you did, in beta. After years of playing on and off I came across my first KZ map. When I entered the map it was like nothing I had ever seen before. I admired the inventiveness and imagination of Patrick (Kreedz as most of you know him) and contacted him about his mapping and his style. Soon enough I was attempting to create my own KZ maps (for better or for worse) with the guidance of Kreedz and my closest friend narby. For the most part I built completely ridiculous and unplayable maps simply to try and stretch my creativity as much as possible. I began working on a map known as “kz_cursed_tomb”. I can not recall exactly how I came into contact with Soulfather regarding my map but he ended up testing it for me and mentioning I had fixable fps issues within the map that he would correct. I was very grateful to him for his offer, and even though I was a bit reluctant at the time to send my rmf (source file) to him, I figured that because he was friends with kreedz and had also published maps for kz in the past it would be ok. After some time he sent me back the map and had put a wall in the middle of the second section, changed some of my water textures, and added some func_walls (which is usually something on do on an absolute final version of my map). Most of the changes he made I removed because of aesthetic purposes on which most of my friends agreed. The middle wall remained in the map, as well as adding some trims and aesthetic touches to it. I appreciated the help I was given by Soulfather for my map. After we had tested my map he asked me about other maps I had made. I showed him a few of them and he asked me about mapping for CZ. I told him I did not have the time. While looking at one of my maps – magical castle – he asked me about the base of the map. I tried to explain it to him and he requested the rmf file to take a look at it. I thought that because of his help previously this was something I could do without worry. After looking at the rmf file he asked me if he could create a similar base for a KZ mod map he wanted to create. I did not see anything wrong with him creating a similar base as the one in my map so I told him that it was fine. Perhaps he misunderstood this. I saw his map http://kzmod.com/e107_plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=kz_fortress%2Aby%2ASoUlFaThER%2Fkz_fort3.jpg and I realized it was not simply the base of my map. If you compare this to http://aberner.powweb.com/mylife/bored.JPG, I think you can pretty clearly see that it’s the exact map I created simply with different textures, whether you claim to have moved some things around or not please do not try and say it’s a different map it simply isn’t. That’s nice of you to give me credit in a readme file, but I distinctly recall never given you explicit credit to take my map and then use it as your own. Honestly that does not even make sense to me. I sent you the rmf in good faith to show something to you. When you asked if you could create a base or use a base similar to mine of course I said that is ok. There was never any discussion about you taking my map file and then using it as your own, and I was very disappointed to see that happen. Later on I also noticed a post on kreedz.com that someone brought to my attention. “SoUlFaThEr have done a better version of kz_cursed_tomb, with better fps and also fixed a few bugs in the level. It's free to download in the downloadsection now!” To be honest I don’t really understand that. I tried to play on a server recently when my map loaded I got an error saying “Your map version does not match that of the server.” Did you re-release my map as well claiming it as your own? I’m a bit confused to say the least because I do not recall giving you any permission to use that map file either, nor to release it as your own. This is not an attempt to bad mouth you or to start drama. I’m confused as to why my maps are being posted under your name when I don’t recall giving you any permission to use them. Please do not say anything negative to gangien regarding this, when I first saw the map pictures I was very angry and I spoke with him. He was being a good friend to me by sticking up for me when I did not have the guts to do so myself. With regard to FPS issues – I never claimed I could/could not fix these issues myself. With my starwars map, all the people who beta tested for me did not mention they had encountered serious fps issues. I have a brand new computer so it’s difficult for me to see these problems and therefore I have testers. I apologize to everyone who had an issue and I will make attempts in the future to have players with lower end machines test these maps for me. Secondly, for saying I don’t know how to create maps with regard to FPS issues – I have created hundreds of CS maps for league teams including CAL-CPL-CEVO. In these maps I paid quite possibly more attention to FPS than anything else throughout the testing of the map. The reason being they were for competitions. Years ago such a thing did not exist in the KZ community. The idea behind KZ maps as I saw it was simply a stretch of the imagination, and therefore yes I did build on the entire grid. KZ has changed, and with the competition aspect of it I see the need for higher end FPS in maps and I will work accordingly. So again, I apologize to everyone for my latest map, I just wanted to create something unlike anyone had done before and without being told I had FPS issues, I was unaware. I will try my best not to let that happen in the future. I hope any confusion has been cleared up here and we can move forward now. Thank you. Angie

angie mapper
22/02/2007 06:42:00

Quick edit and addition just to be clear on comparing the two, I have added a half textured (did not have the wads loaded) version of my castle in the Valve Hammer Editor compared with your "base" of my magical castle. http://aberner.powweb.com/mylife/kzlol.jpg I'm sorry but the resemblance is remarkable heh.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 12:38:00

angie nice that you write. yes we totally misunderstood each other and as i see it, its simply for a lack of communication and nothing else. in the end its actualy harmless.i was never told that gangien and dropsys also had verison of the cursed_tomb. i remember relaying this conversation that you and i had about kzmod, to millet whom, at the time, had agreed to map for kzmod....he was the first. ok ill go back too :) We met because at that specific month in time....I was put in charge of checking kz_tag maps....maps that might get the kz tag. among the mappers at the time were rad0n, gangien, millet, clintmo,some of our great french mapper section, and you. Rather than following the previous way of map checking(just saying yes or no to the map) i decided to change that and actually help the mappers who obviously had bad fps problems or otherwise didnt know much about mapping yet. iut was all only good intention. FPS is one of my strong points and i attemtp to thit the middle of computers...i dont aim only for the high end people.....if i make something...all will be bale to play it. everyone who made something at that time, was missing knowledge of fps as a complete whole....most didnt even know what developer 1 was let alone r_speeds 1 and what all that crap meant. thats how i got testing your map :) moving on we were with narby and you on your rollercoaster map(and at least 3 others)....as you say and ive also been saying the whole time for a year on this subject now with gangien: we talked about you mapping for kzmod with some of those ideas you had....my reason for going there was becasue the maps were wicked cool....and i believed that once source was finally released, that it would be able to handle those fps with no problem. i remember specifically begging you to release them...how can you forget that????? so...im an honest person angie. we fixed up your map cursed tomb. i spent 5 days on it....and remember them well taking out 4500 wpoly out of the players face. yes there was a wall becasue you cant just fill hammers grid with a wide open map. hl1 and even source are not typical outdoor engines and simply cant handle the space and polys. theres no LOD. if you have experience you should konw what i mean. what happened was this....on day 4 i sent you a version to look at(aks if its ok so far).....i wasnt done.......i dont konw what you did with it after this becasue all contact stopped after you showed me your site with maps and our talk about kzmod. if you took some things back out cool.......whatever right? The map got released and people thought it was great.....no one at all complained about fps. I do rememebr noticeing that some of the things i had changed were gone.....but that was less important....main thing was playability.....i also remember TELLING oyu evenry thing i changed. when i wiork onmj peoples maps i keep lists of what i did. i move really fast and if i dont do this....i get lost. this is the way i work for 7 years now so i konw what im saying :( ive no clue who rereleased it. Moxx wrote the news....not me!!!! the release seems to be spawned by a different version of the map...since you apparently had like a shitload in circulation according to dropsys, shit can happen. the smae thing haoppened to my dreaming map....there were also 2 in circultaion becasue Pat took on elook at it....and released it...and the damn thing wasnt my final in the same way you did it :) hehehe I never personally released a SINGLE map in my entire time in kz becasue i never had the ftp passwords..so how could i have?..so if MOXX re-released your "better version by SF" i did not have shit to do with it becasue after i sent it to you and it got suprisingly fast released (even tho i said to you i wasnt done yet).....i wrote you.....i wrote you......i wrote you.....and you never wrote back. i even wrote you when i made the final compile of kz_fortress to show it to you you never replied but every single day your msn is on.....ive written many many times to angie.....never once a reply or a hello anyway i never touched the map after the first release.....i only looked at it and said yes thats the ones becasue somehow...kzfr had a different version.....dont ask me im not a fortune teller :) i remember our conversation ove Fantasy Castle like this: i have even said it here too.....i checked out fantasy castle....loved it...and thought, out of all of them you showed me, this one would be possible in source.....you said CZ...but i never even owned the game once in my life so theres your first confusion. you stated you would most likely have no time for it(you remember this). I said ok what do you think about me converting it when i get the mod going.....you said feel free becasue these maps you never intended to release anyway.....you said they are simply reflections of my imagination...they werent meant to be played. i also remember writing immediately to millet say we got a cool map from angie....becasue just before this...we got kreedz's cliffhanger too. my worry was that we wouldnt have enough maps at the begging...i could not forsee all the programmer weirdities that happened and was happy for any rmf donations. WaRi gave me a map too......at lest there was one guy who was relaly happy about his conversion in my game here besides Pat ..who was impressed with my conversion of exn_ezjungle. He even siad yep...you are the right person to have my rmf...i remember comments like that one. they dont go flying out of Pats mouth that much and we understood each other well and i thought also had some good trust going. im not stealing his concept am i? no....im as honest as it gets :( and people always want to shit on me man. all i do is help peeps and help them make their dreams come true :( If Pat comes in ehre and tells me he never gave his jungle.....ill literally kill myself. i dont lie...and those that believe i do will kill me. why would he give me his??.....and now you change your thoughts about things angie.....you gave me permission to convert it becasue you had no time to do it yourself(I even had told ya that pat gave me a map too as strength to make your descision!!!!!!. i think you are being influenced by others opinions and dont actualy remembr angie....i would never EVER EVER EVER have made anything on that map if i hadnt had PROPER permission. maybe ill get things in writing next time...but you know how that goes...its all a trust thing until someone doesnt remember what they said. al it takes os for gangien to think the wrong damn thing becasue he doesnt know anything about what we talked about.....this fuckin pissing me off :( ask anyone i deal with....i ask permission. i even fuckin asked kreedz if i should go ahead and try to make the kzmod. damn.....im serious. i was on TV and mentioned his name. was i saying that i made the concept??? why would i fuckin go so little after years of good mapping fun....take someone's shit and modify without permission....what5 the fuck is this? I'm not Nibble or whatever that dudes name is with 100 CS fun maps that look like shit. you must read again please what i have written SEVERAL TIMES BUT NO ONE LISTENS!!!! i said i used your map <----read that again!!!.....i modified it.....took out the bottom of it...you had some hill there with immense vertice problems that a displacement in source could easily replace with 98% less fps stress.........i made it full of displacements.......the basic structure of the castle grounds is yours...but i had to set every vertice back on the grid so it wouldnt be such an FPS problem the pentoganal shape and some of the brushwork trim on the walls was totally off angie look at your RMF please!!!. then i remade the surrounding atmosphere, dropped all your huge block jumps.....and gave it life by giving it to well over 100k people.....with your name: 1. in the readme...not just your name angie....a description of what you did. 2. i created a sign that also stated what you did in the map. Its right above the damn start timer too so EVERYONE will see it for sure! so where please is this stealing/no credit giving going on?? and dont you think the map looks good to go with it? Angie be honest....its sweet!! get the mod and listen to the sounds!!! omg how in depth. i sure do love it...and anyone else who sees it is impressed with it.....we worked that map into shape angie and ive never stated that you didnt. so stop being pissed off gangien or you maybe even to angie i dont know. in all this confusion i can see why tho.....i apologize for it but theres nothing i can do about it and i also didnt think i was doing anyone injustice either so my apology is worth little in this case. i gave our work to a shitload of people who are playing it unlike being amongst the thousands of CS maps where theres some luck involved. arent you happy theres more poeple who have played the fortress map aklready than have ever played cursed tomb? its a truth and can easily be proven angie :9 youshould be happy not upset.....why are poeple angry when i do something good? i dont even do any of this really for my self..of course i enjoy it...but i much more enjoy seeing people enjoying my map. calling it back: i fixed things on cursed tomb once and never touched it again.....i didnt release it then...and i did not re-release it saying it was mine...that was moxx's words, read his name he posted it.....if it sasy soulfather behind it in the download section...then the person who uploaded it did this and not me!!!!! i never had access to the FTP. thats a FACT becasue we are actually talking about the kreedz.com website and not XJ on that relrelease!!! it was not me OK????:( i worked on your map fantasy castle with the impression that you said it was ok. i never once thought otherwise. if you had not said yes to me..i would have erased like ive done many times. unfortunately we dont konw each other well enough for that to seem like the absolute truth. it is also clear i gave you credit properly, so my intentions were obviously not to steal them. what did you want me to do...make a movie where i force everyone who loads a game in kzmod to see a big picture of angie who did about .2% of the 2 years of work on kzmod??? shit man....i gave credit to EVERYONE FAIRLY. SUE ME if it wasnt fuckin enough :( i got no grudges or anything with you or gangien.....never had a reason too and still besides the fact you both call me a thief right now....totally fucked up shit :( 7 years of mapping ......and now suddenly im stealing shit? as if i ran out of ideas or something? continue to ask people coming to me with ideas....i slap out ideas as if i had 400 in my backpocket man.....ask anyone who knows me closer.....take a look at the other 20 maps i created for kzmod.....think i dont have ideas???? hellooooooo. not one of them looks like the other...and each has a totally different concept. i do not lack in the crweativity field. my 40 CS maps will shiow ya the same...40 different things. guess what....i should be pissed off too now that i think of it..... i made the sound for all the kzmod maps.....i should have gotten credit man damn!!! i made a lof shit on millet maps.....made fucntions.....fixed fps...set hints....did all sorts of things....i gave him the complete concept of cellblock man.....and made most of the start area and its cool effects... did i beg this person to put my name in his map??? no becasue we work as a team. Tipii WANTED to put me in his map becasue i did his sound too of course and created the displacement asteroid shapes for all of them. ok thats nice. Kaos_nyrb one of my programmers made 2 concepts....just concepts i made em beautiful maps...the second of his is coming in beta2. we both got credit on both maps.....i work with many fuckin people on map projects....i dont fuckin steal fuckin maps we ALL worked on kzmod together. who ever made most of the map.......is the mapper. in the case of kzmod kz_fortress.......if you were to compare vmf to rmf.....you WILL see that the map was resituated....nealry completely.......80% of the map you did not place in that one that i released in kzmod. you didnt script sounds.....you didnt texture it anywhere near that good....i made textures for it.....i made 2 very original minimaps.....and placed 300 more jumps than you originally had in it.....i created the skybox and the surrounding atmosphere. i gave it a concept with a king...little things like "the king is impressed and the king is amused statements at certain points...special sounds for achievements in it....the list goes on...who did the lighting???? you had one light_env. did you add the rain and the clouds that hover there??? what was left of your map was the castle building....the walls around it with their towers....and the pentagonal base structure. but every single block of that what is in kz_fortress from your map.....was moved and vertice manipulated to sit EVERY SINGLE vertice back on a gridline crossing....PERFECT. upon closer examination I got rid of your 32-sided spiked cylinders and replaced them with 12 sides ones. all of the cylindrical shapes in the entire map...were replaced with less sides one...ALL OF THEM. the map wouldnt even compile the first time i loaded and i knew exactly why by taking one single look at it. thats fuckin rebuilding shit in my eyes.....if im not mistaken the damn roof of the castle drastically changed as well.....including many many other little subtle changes. forget all the nice detail i added. i placed models for the windows...did you have windows at all?? did you have hanging shields of knights?? no you made the base structure angie and my mod crew still thanks you for this becasue it was an excellent vision. thats why i wanted it for the mod :) simple. you cannot deny the work i also did on the map :( next time i make 4 walls and send them to a buddy and he uses it to release a map...ima freak out that my name wasnt on the map as main author i want you...angie to reply to the mail i sent to your MSN account mail adress.....i want to send you the VMF of kz_fortress so you can copy paste the damn thing into your RMF (vice versa would work much better tho). if you actually do this step....you will see what i really changed.....and until then.....its not your map anymore only a part of it is...a combination of the works of 2 people. credit..i say again was properly given it was a good intended thing angie. check my work to see if im lying to you. take a look at it and tell me you dont like what it has become, considering what it looked like in its unfinished state. if you see that each vertice is in exactly the same pklace as it was.....then hey....ill commit suicide then cuz i must be aliar then. Take care and good night. i hope this is over soon.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 12:48:00

the more i see your comparison pic there...you so painstakingly created there more i really see the differences. of ycouse as said your base.... you can even see the cylinder towers and shapes in your map are different...yours looks smoother becasue you have double the amount of sides on them then the ones i reconstructed. i remember bitching at millet about them so hardcore. but...when i was done...that map finally took about 15 minutes to compile...as apposed to the 3 hours attempt that ended up getting a fatal error in VIS. its the vertice work...and in your firswt ic there...besides your huge perfectly square block brushwork.....you can see that no vertice of those cylinders are on the grid....you horribly overlapped 32 sides cylinders and all of them also off the grid.......shit didnt compile right in source man....they got all off....try to compile your map in HL1 and see how long it takes angie....if you say less than 2 hours...no way :) you are really not able to comment oin how nice the new map looks in comparison to your old one with its brush made flag up top and unplayabilty. im not even slammiung you mapioing becasue we both konw this: you didnt make that map with the intention of any release...you said you were bored.....check the title of the jpg.....

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 12:50:00

the proof that you only made the base desing...is simply seen in your comparison.. sorry keep finding thing to point at that you all wrong about :)

Simplicity
22/02/2007 13:00:00

if its HER map, and all you did is "code" it in to source or whatever, (i know very little about mapping) then on your kzmod site it should not be kz_fortress by SoUlFaTheR, it should be kz_fortress by Angie, theres my take on this matter, if its not your original idea and creation, its not yours.

rahul
22/02/2007 14:10:00

WOW dude, if you had HALF A brain when you look at that picture you notice its the FUCKING same thing, you can claim to have "moved some vertices around" all you want, but its the fucking same map you retard. Don't pawn off other peoples work and then fucking lie about it you dumb prick.

insen mapper
22/02/2007 14:13:00

bullshit invertex its by soulfather and the ideas by angie which can be mentioned in the map or in a txt file

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 14:39:00

i gracefully placed angies name in there...and kreedz too sincve it was also missing. those of you who dont understand mapping...stfu and stay out of this. those of you who feel it necessary to personally slam me with swear words and shit...make yourself look small....i attacked no one personaly here and the conversation has gone through a lot without people screaming and name calling. rahul...you got one post in here, dont know me, and i believe you were sent here to spray hate on me....or....you are someone else hiding your real self. what have i ever done to you? if someone made only 10% of a completed finalized map....its not their own anymore but rather...part of another persons work...i dont give a fuck what you say or think. we can take this to plaigerism laws if you want, in which case i would end up winning. she made the base ...thats it....and even that changed......cant you fuckers see the difference in Angies update post with that comparison pic? similar design yeah cuz she made that base....but the rest was not done by her. lol fuck anyone who thinks im a map thief. your small opinions dont affect me in a real sense, they fuck with my head becasue i know this was not done to steal anyhting. fuck off an die(not you angie or gangien) just the faggot hate sprayers who write shit about me and dont konw me. i wish i could meet each one of you negative fuckers in person to watch you say that shit to my face not konwing the truth about it. this whole fuckin ordeal is evil and some fucked up playn to ruin my rep. ill laugh last on this one

Simplicity
22/02/2007 15:04:00

Hey, hopefully faker and the xj crew can see its the same fucking map that shouldn't be allowed to be released with the "kz_" tag since, SF you have no right to put that tag on your maps even if it isn't for 1.6 or not, they still get maps the kz tag, or kzmaps does. and i sure hope that kreedz would probably bitch you out for going this low to take someones fucking map away. And you have to no rep. to protect seeing all the shit your trying to defend yourself on that anyone that is not blind can see... its the same fucking map!! No one cares if you transcoded the textures for the hl2 engine or any bullshit like that.. the map was NOT done by you, it is NOT your map!!! I would gladly tell you to this to your face if your mind can't comprehend what your eyes are believing. You should not attempt this map just for the reason it is not yours to release. Im not sure about the plagerism laws in Germany, but in the USA, where this map was made... she would surely win, so thats another agruement you don't know shit about either.

maxeh
22/02/2007 15:36:00

This is absolutely hideous. Angie made the map, not just came up with the idea, actually MADE the map. You took her idea, and map and then made a map almost exactly the same and claimed it your own. Any previous respect I had for you, SF, has completely vanished.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 16:38:00

i fuckin gave angie credit dammit :( why am i getting treated like this when its plain to see i gave her credit and she gave me the rmf? i dont understand all this.

insen mapper
22/02/2007 16:42:00

its coz here are only foolish ppl there brains jsut to small btw i can steal what i want if there isnt a copyright on something and theres no patent on kz ;)

Simplicity
22/02/2007 16:43:00

its HER mappppp ALLL HERS!!!!!!!!!! its Kz_fortress by Angie, thats it.. you put it into hl2 textures etc... you didn't change the map at ALLL its the SAME map that SHE made?!!? do you fucking understand yet?!!? No one gives a shit what you "claimed" that you had to "do" to the map to make it "playable". Its HER map!!

JohnnyB mapper
22/02/2007 16:49:00

It should be angies map with credit to soulfather, not soulfathers map with credit to angie. She made it, not you. Therefore its HER map. You can't just take someone elses work, copy it almost 100% and then give them credit for providing the "base" when all you did was tweak the map a bit.

faker mapper
22/02/2007 17:14:00

[b]InseN:[/b] I don't get it why you need to insult gangien... He was arugmenting with normal arguements and never said anything mean or insulting. Therefore: [b]1. Warning for InseN:[/b] Insulting. [b]Invertex:[/b] Thing are a bit complicated with kzmod. Actually it's SoUlFaThEr's mod and the kz_ tag in kzmod got another meaning. Maybe it would be easier for everyone to understand if thos maps got named kzmod_mapname - would solve a lot of other questions like "Where to download kz_cliffhanger" in the XJ Chatbox, too. Cause a lot of people still don't understand the full difference of 1.6 Jumping (XJ) and HL2 Jumping (Kzmod). The more I think about the idea the more I love it. Another point is that SoUlFaThEr has another idea about the "kz_" tag than Kreedz/XJ had. He thinks everybody should be allowed to name his maps "kz_" - without a quality check. And the community will decided which maps are nice (the maps which will be played a lot). XJ didn't share this oppinion but it's SoUlFaThEr's decision because it's his mod. Anyway... I already told that to SF in the early days of KZMod... XJ will support Kzmod and host KZmod record list as well, even if we don't agree on that "kz_ tag policy" in kzmod. But we would still be selecting the maps, even if they are all "kz_" maps: We will addall those original kzmaps (which are in the KZMod Installer) to the record/download section and select (after maptests pretty similar to the current 1.6 kz_ tag checks) ONLY the best of the "custom" and self-made "kz_" Kzmod maps. Well, I hope you got what I tryed to say, because all of this "kz_" 1.6/Kzmod Stuff is getting really confusing ;) So I'd really love to have some other thoughts together with SoUlFaThEr about this problem. I think mapnames like "kzmod_cliffhanger" would be a nice idea, but I can't make this decsion of course - it's SoUlFaThEr's MOD. [b]SoUlFaThEr + Angie:[/b] This is a really simple misunderstanding and I really can understand both sides. I have talked to both of you and you both seem to be very nice and reasonable persons. So I wonder if we can't find a good solution for both of you. So this post is intended to offer a solution for this whole struggle: It's pretty obvious that both of you agree that Angie allowed you to use the base of her map/idea (magical castle). So all this drama is caused by a different definition of "base" in your heads I guess. I'm not a mapper so it's really hard for me to handle those expressions, but if I'd talked about the "base" of a map I'd thouht about the basic architecture. Which means the rock and the Ground, but not the whole castle. But that's just my opinion and I don't have anything to do with this map so it doesn't really matter. But I guess Angie had a same definition of base - this is why she was pretty disappointed seeing you "copying" the whole castle as well. And for SF the "base" was more like the whole architecutre - except of the jumps. Anyway... It doesn't make sense to argue about a proper definition of "base". It's more important to find a good solution for both sides. So I have thought about 2 different solutions: 1) It's obvious that SF spent a lot of work converting the map, take good looking HL2 Textures and made all those changes to make it playable in Kzmod (adding a lots of jumps and stuff). But the base and, much more important, the whole idea/the theme was created by Angie. And that's at least 50% of the hole work imo. So the right way of defining the author would be like "Map by Angie and SoUlFaThEr." or "Map by Angie, converted to KZMod by SF". That's just my idea... Maybe both of you can live with that solution. 2) If Angie don't want to share the mapidea, even though he allowed you to use the base, I would think it would be a cool and fair gesture to remove the map out of the "official KZMod mappool". That would end those troubles, too. Even tho it's probably pretty fustration for SF because so many hours of work were wasted. Just some thoughts... I'd love to see some feedback :)

faker mapper
22/02/2007 17:19:00

And sorry about those typos and the horrible english. I had an awful night :/ (I guess maxeh knows what I'm talking about) :D

maxeh
22/02/2007 17:32:00

haha faker, I do indeed. A nice post, hopefully we can settle some of the dispute.. My personal opinion is Map by Angie, converted to KZMod by SF, but we'll see :)

Simplicity
22/02/2007 18:11:00

okay thanks for the clarification, kzmod_mapname would be a good idea, as considering ppl think "kz_" maps are... 1.6, so thats a good idea, both solutions are good ideas to faker. I agree with maxeh to :p

SoUlFaThEr mapper
22/02/2007 21:28:00

all it took was for one normal person to see it...thanks FAKER...i said in the damn beginning it was a misunderstanding :( im open to ANY DESCISION thats CLEARING my goddamn name from this frickin THIEF ACCUSATION. thats PERIOD the worst thing you can say to a level designer. Gangien didnt have all his info right becasue he was missing some very imopiortant conversations :( check yerself next time further. This is for me as a human being one of the worst things that you can do to me is call me a thief or a liar. especially because this is a community i fell in love with and have spent 90% of my personal time doing things for and helping. i have been active in everything constructive since my day 1 in kz. ill rename the map if she wants ill throw the map out(but a 100k people already have it and thats a fact just off netwide downloads of the beta1.) ill cut my own throat for trying to make it look good too if thats the crime. i really apologize for the 2 months i spent make source eat this map in playability :( most of it was lighting and displacement problems and all the vertice corrections and cylinder side amount reductions. the original map had no detail...it was the base structure for a "great map". FAKER!!!! :D im seeing something unfair right now. i think this "rahul" kid deservers a damn warning too for even calling me half of the shit he called me up a few posts from here. he doesnt know me, im still an honorable admin here unless you have decided to strip me of everything. maybe you overlooked it but somehow that one is a bit worse than what insen had to say... KZMOD: here the actual deal why it became this people: this was SF at the beginning: the name is Kreedz Climbing named after the owner of the concept righteously :) i called the original map tag: kc_ makes sense right ?? all the damn sings were made with KC. Kreedz Climbing = kc_ i had solved the confusion problem right there.......but nooooooooo i had to change it back to KZ_ for whom?????? you guessed it!! Kreedz himself said this. his concept....whatever ok so i gracefully changed it back changed all the logos again changed all the map names! np tho..it wasnt released yet. now...in his absense, im told to change it....and ill tel ya right now...i made an agreement with KREEDZ.........im not changing my agreement with him :) unless he tells me to. alright??? i would not be willing to accept any kzmod_ tag becasue thats just way too long for those who have creative map names. I would rather...if Kreedz tells me to change it....lol.....then ill change it to kc_. it was the first thing i did anyway but then...nobody likes my logic. base structure: the ground work in a map can never be called the base structure...becasue in building terms the base structure is always the building not the surrounding so....i call it that for this reason. but thats funny how can you expect me to change what has already been released people ....no way? there is no confusion. i can change the map texture to map created by Angie, converted by SoUl. i dont have a problem with....but for all of you to suddenly LSOE ALL RESPECT....the mission was not compleete yet guys relax. and ah...if you begin selecting what demos can be made.....ill completey fuckin NOT release beta2 until i get my onwn sponsor and leave the custody of XJ completely if you wish to undermine my own games rules by placing yours on them. the game is free. because of the nature of the maps..... Countersktrike survived everything else in the world and they do not judge maps. they open review sites. no game out there on the net judges maps. that control freak shit. thats telling a not-yet-very-good mapper, that he can take his map and call it something else now and not be included in the game he loves????????? WTF is that. then you create renegades like SN_ CLINTMO CG and whoever else kzfr........im like all in one place man!!! every map names itself kz_ and everyone who is allowed FREEDOM OF SPEECH.....is also allowed to express his creative flow to the world the way he wants too. that includes the design of an artistic level designer for 3d games. it is a form of artwork. you cannot shut down mappers form making a map for their game and dissallowing records for it. that is my logic. quality or not freedom of speech appplies to art. you would otherwise not have paintings of naked women in the whitehouse. i personally as a mapper refuse to disallow anyone the kz tag(or kc if we must go back). if you dissalow ANY single record of any map made for my game.....ill remove myself from the thing completely. I can find spionsors easily. Any map for kzmod can have records. and you must know the system is now different: there are up to 15 timers in any one single map with seperate courses. each course can have a darn world record in this way....so ...its named after courses not maps:) XJ and their 100 rules is ok for some....but for many...its way to much control over everyone and its sort of making the map suffer lately.....many complain to me about them. i dont have time to worry about it :( you will not find a way to ruin the concept of kzmod with your damn rules. people dont map for you becasue you wont allow them a kz_tag

faker mapper
23/02/2007 00:10:00

Well.... 1. The "custody of XJ" is just Kreedz's main Idea how the kz_ mapping system should work. He started the whole system because he is the godfather who introduced the kz_ maps, so he could decide which maps get the "kz_" tag and which doesn't, of course. After he went inactive he gave the right to give the "kz_" tag to Moxx, who continued the "kz_" giving work with kzmaps.co.uk for a long time. After kzmaps and XJ merged in those days, Moxx brought this right to XJ - and XJ is checking those maps for the "Kz_" tag since then. XJ didn't introduce this system. You see... we didn't introduce the system. Kreedz did. So if you want to blame someone.. blame Kreedz. We just keep going on with the community work and keep the whole thing alive. In the interview with Kreedz, some time ago, Kreedz told waRi (the interviewer) that hethinks this work is important and he appreciates that we are going on with it because the people out there should know that if they join a server with a "kz_" map that this map has a nice quality and they can enjoy playing. And that's exactly the point why a free system, where everybody can name his map "kz_" without a check, will never work: People will lose the overview very soon because there will be more crappy/ugly maps than good and enjoyable maps. (it's hard to make good maps) If you want this to happen, what is your goood right because it's ur mod, XJ had planned to host only downloads and records for the good and popular maps - not for those crappy and ugly maps nobody enjoys to play. This wasn't meant like to destroy your rules or thoughts about a free community, that was just meant to provide an overview and make people ENJOY playing those maps without having to fear wheter the map will be good or not. If you don't think it's XJ's right to decide which maps should be allowed for record demos we maybe have to give an ear for what maps the community likes to play. But it does definitely DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO HOST CRAPPY AND UGLY MAP and RECORDS for this maps. That's waste of ressources, and we don't have unlimitted ressources. Thats the next point... if kzmod will be running perfectly smooth and become very popular ... there will be thousand of new maps and 1000 of record demos. U will find out pretty soon that it is almost impossible to host al these maps: No sponsor offers unlimitted disk space and unlimitted traffic, and u need admins to keep the list uptodate, too. Another thing is... what is the sense of hosting bad maps nobody enjoys to play? People will just download them, be dissapointed and maybe never come back. "WTF is that. then you create renegades like SN_ CLINTMO CG and whoever else kzfr........im like all in one place man!!! " We don't create renegades. They hosted their maps on their own websites long before XJ even knew about them (esp. the sn_ maps). When we found out that these map do exist we decided to take the in the list for official world records because those maps are fun to play, too. Anyway... we didn't do anything about their names... The mappers did. They just wanted to have their own name/tag instead of kz_. They didn't regard a custom name as negative. That's another point for KZMod btw... What are you going to do if people decide to name their maps cg_ on KZmod, too. Will you force them to rename them to kz_? You see.. things aren't just black and white. We never wanted to "control" things, but we are pretty realistic in some points (maybe too realistiv for some of the very open minded people - but it's necessary if you want to run a community without chaos) and some things just need a bit of control. Anyway... we never wanted to control or reject people without a reason. We just want to make people happy and enjoy their stay. And to do that we have to provide quality. However... I really thing XJ and KZMOD should support each other on a high level.... It would be really sad to see things going down like this.... So I ask you to join IRC and have some discussions with the XJ staff. Im sure we can find a good solution for us all in this regard, too.

gangien mapper
23/02/2007 00:13:00

I think it comes down to this. She says you acquired the map because you wanted to know how to do something she did. SF says ".. what do you think about me converting it when i get the mod going.....you said feel free because these maps you never intended to release anyway....." I do not think there's much room for a misunderstanding. One of you is flat out lying or has a bad memory. For the reasons above mainly relating to sf's general arrogance and seeming to like to take credit for things he didn't really do (and again go read my links in my orignal post, I'm NOT pulling this shit out of my ass), I conclude sf stole the map.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
23/02/2007 00:24:00

nice quality maps: you release maps with hard fps problems tho? Kreedz introduced the system: yer absolutely right but the first conversation i had with him..was that that is illegal actually...and that he shouldnt be accepting money and charging people. i was...yeah...against that concept. i still made my maps becasue i thought it was openly creative. Providing an overview: controling who can have a workld record on their map. i simply do not agree with this concept. Im fair to anyone who touches and likes Kreedz Climbing enough to spend time on a map no matter how butt ugly it is. I'm the type of guy that will help them learn and you know this. kzmod community...as it will grow.......is FREE to enjoy their game the way they want to. if you should one day offer a server for it....then you can surely add only those maps. thats not the issue :) but every map should have the kz tag in kzmod and i wont budge one inch on that descision. quality will be decided in the same manner that ALL existing games use: natural selection. people themselves will choose which maps they will like. imagine the CS original mod makers trying to control their 6 million man community ??? hell no they dont even have the right. i never wanted map hosting and actually turned away from the suggestion beacuse source maps are much much bigger in file size. it has to be done like counteerstrike becasue no one will support that not the maps...the demos are a few kb. the renegades: (lol) made their own names to avoid the kz checking period. im almost positive i denied clintmo a map back when i was doing it for about 3 months.......then kzmod started....and he left and began making clintomo maps. force peeps to TAKE the kz tag: hehe i will not force anyopne to do anything in kzmod :) i never stated they couldnt name their map differently :) i said it would be good if everyone sued the tag, so when others use the search function filter for the tag....they will find all of them if i saw only black and white....i would not be a designer at all. control aspect: look at the xj rules at the present. and compare them with mine...just take the forum and main site....buig difference. ill ban anyone who breaks the rules 3 times. there arent many so these people are found quickly. not allowing smilies in the chatbox is not my idea of site rule management :) hehe it is control...controling for cheats on world records is a special item of point. there i understand most of the rules. we all hate cheaters in this club. you want to make people happy: by rejecting the lower talented mappers who are trying to fullfill their map creation dreams and be PART of the community for the game they like(or in 16. part of another game)??? you do give up that there is mistake in this in the same sentence. im totally about freedom od speech in this matter. Art work is a form of expression as well as music and therefore is allowed to express itself as it chooses. i will allow any beginner to toss out his work as part of the game and allow also records to be set on that map with fps problems or not it is a map for the Kreedz Climbing game. it gets world records. period. XJ and KZMOD: I am totally supportive of the community and always have been. you konw that in every kzmod map...theres info about all of your irc and www. going downliek this is going against my games wish and vision. that vision is a nonviolent atmosphere with no weapons and hitting or any control of the freedom of creation for any aspect of the game. this is a modders world...let people learn and feel thesy are involved in the community as a part of it....and they will be free dude. you resrict people on talent...they weill walk away and never come back becasue they are bnot "ACCEPTED". basic principle for me. i love the sound of it too. good for any and everyone. natural selection takes care of the rest on its own....cs has good servers and bad servers too and still survives realy well..i will follow suit of possible. i want to actualy take competition to a higher level and have my ideas about how it will work. i will do it with or without you faker. if you track and control who gets demos is the kzmod demo records list based oni the quality of the maps in any way, shape, or form, i wont be there for you. you fight a dude with a high respect for the human instict....and acceptance is a basic instict that drives and wakes people up. not being acceopted does the opposite. im creating a positive atmosphere with kzmod....not one based on a lot hard core rules and control systems. in the end i will be letting someone else control it for me :)

SoUlFaThEr mapper
23/02/2007 00:31:00

Gangienconclude what you like...it doesn affect me...i konw what i did. you seem to agree its either one is lying or the other one forgot something really selectively important. why be so one-way towards the negative aspect when this seems theres no proof of anything? people forget seemingly unimportant shit all the time. i might have an arrogant appearance to you.....but its the wrong impression if you relaly knew me well gangien...you cannnot deny there is room for truth in that statement. arrogance does also not prove a liar. you agress to say i lie. you cannot prove this....nor can we prove she forgot that i waited a day for the yes and was happy when i got it. well life goes ion right...can you personally bring me down? is that your desire or is it just fine for you to express your opinion? if its the opinion then i can live with your opinion. [i]"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one" [/i] -unkown to me who said this.

MilletGtR
23/02/2007 00:34:00

Whoever havent been here long enought can shut their mouths and take their business elsewhere, this is no place for flaming! A judge in court would not only take the accuseds part into concideration. He takes the defendants too, and treat them equally. One of these persons is Faker. He read both of Soulfathers and Angies statements and came to the conclution that soulfather has already said: It was a misunderstanding.. Why is there a need for these accusations by some of these guys like rahul. What is your point? Try going to court with that and youll probably end up with the judges hammer in the head. This was only a retorical question, rahul. Dont state yourself if you dont have anything good to say.

MilletGtR
23/02/2007 00:35:00

"A judge in court would not only take the [u]accusors[/u] part into concideration. He takes the defendants too, and treat them equally." Just a change.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
23/02/2007 00:38:00

and forget a chatbox post,,,she got her official credit and ive also becasue of the stir up.....made even more so relax already damn. you begin to dwell

gangien mapper
23/02/2007 00:47:00

Can I prove it? no of course not. Can you? no you can't either. You and angie are only witnesses, but from her reaction to this whole thing and going so far as to ask me to publicly accuse you of stealing her map.. There's not much question in my mind, who's at fault.

MilletGtR
23/02/2007 00:57:00

Then how come you, gangien, accuse soulfather way up there ^..? Why even begin if its a shut case?? Do misunderstandings every cross your way, gangien? Then you should know how it is, how they work. How people who have been friends for 5 years can get pissed off at each other for no purticular reason..

MilletGtR
23/02/2007 01:15:00

Heres the thing. Soulfather has helped alot of mappers, he has made them more playable, better looking, more fun even possible?.. I am one of thoes mappers that never thanked soulfather publically, or in my map, kz_cellblock for the amount of help i got from him. I should have, but i know too soulfather dont help people to become famous like most of you think.. He only want better maps for the people. So then theres one map, that by [u]misunderstanding[/u] soulfather gets the green light from angie to use. And then being accused a thief?... This, im afraid, is the unjust world we live in. Thoes of you who know the story of Gandhi can relate.

gangien mapper
23/02/2007 01:50:00

millet: it's simple, because it's wrong. misunderstandings happen..s ure.. but considering his track record and even other things i've heard but are little more than rumors about him doing the exact same thing... i have my doubts about it being merely a misunderstanding. And no, how much good someone's done is irrelevant to the discussion of if someone's done something bad. It is perhaps relevant when figuring out a punishment/treatment whatever.

faker mapper
23/02/2007 01:54:00

"you release maps with hard fps problems tho?" Yes - compare it with the normal software/games industry: There are some of the games which need a high-end PC to run properly, too. And some testers with average up to high end PC's got 100.0 on Angies new map. So the fps are no reason to deny the kz_ tag. "i never wanted map hosting and actually turned away from the suggestion beacuse source maps are much much bigger in file size. it has to be done like counteerstrike becasue no one will support that". Without a central place where people can download those maps it will be pretty hard to gather all of the maps, especially for newcomers imo. "it is a map for the Kreedz Climbing game. it gets world records. periode." Even though it's a map with 2 boxes and 2 jumps? Every jumper will try to get the record because it's unbeatable. What would be the sense of hosting crap like this? What if there are more maps like this? U get the point...? "quality will be decided in the same manner that ALL existing games use: natural selection. people themselves will choose which maps they will like." I agree on that, we never said we would deny a popular map only because it's ugly. We didn't handle it like this with 1.6 neither... Just watch tri_complex :) Another point is: If you really want to host a record demo for _EVERY_ single map out there... how would you get a "complete" list of all available maps for kzmod? I'm sure not every mapper will post his map in the kzmod forum or whatever... There will be some unknown maps for sure... Almost impossible to get a complete list if there is no central place where maps are stored. You see, we don't want to tell you how to lead the community or how to set your rules... We just have thought about a realistic concpet for a good working community. If XJ was too restricted and too "controlled" it was dead right now. It isn't. You are doing a really great job with the development of the MOD, but you don't have the the experience about running a community and a whole international world record demo section. There are some important things, like some of those points I mentioned, you haven't thought about yet and which a required to get the community running in a positive way. We have this expierience and, like it was discussed long time ago, we'd love to host that record section for KZMod, too. But if you want us to be ur partner and hosting all the stuff for you we need to find a realistic solution for both sides. That's why I invite you to join IRC (maybe at the weekend when we all have some time to discuss) and have a deep discussions on all of this issues again.

SoUlFaThEr mapper
23/02/2007 14:04:00

man id really love to discuss this with you in irc but....i dont have it and the copy i had wants me to register and pay for it. and i seriously dont believe peeps gonna make a box with 2 jumps in it :) i still believe if peeps want their kzmod map to be known about....they willl post them on our forum becasue its the only place :) it happened quite well with Plan of Attack mod and they never hosted a map once :) ok what do i do about irc....is there a free version of it? Gangien i dont care what you think man. i dont care what rumors you fuckin heard from SF haters. i am no fuckin thief. i wish i could slap your face in the typical french white glove way for this disrespect you do me.

faker mapper
23/02/2007 14:23:00

hm, do you use ICQ or MSN? I think we'll find a way to get your IRC work easily, but I can't and don't want to post it here (I'm sure you understand why :D)

AverageFreak
23/02/2007 18:42:00

:o my irc wants me to reg too... but i wait ~10 secs and the "continue" button becomes usable again... and i can contunie :E

Simplicity
23/02/2007 20:12:00

yeah if you don't ksnow you can wait 5 seconds and then click continue... WOW

gangien mapper
23/02/2007 21:31:00

SF: convince her you're not a thief first. Then maybe you can slap me if you really want.

Guenhwyvar
25/02/2007 09:55:00

Wow, what a monster comment box :). Maybe I find the time to read all the stuff about reputed map stealing, but for now I catched only the part about the kz_ tag politics. Soulfather, I totally agree with your opinion about the "kz_" tag. XJ is outcompeting themselves by clinging to the right to assign this tag. This may have been worked in the beginning, but now.. The user decides which map is worth playing it. And, Faker, if a map is composed of only two boxes, noone would play it. And XJ could/would not accept this map for the world record list. If XJ wants to sieve the jewels for the world records, they can do. But the base for this selection should not be the kz_tag. This system is outdated and should be reconsidered. Look at the definition on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Strike_maps Maybe the Kelten clan did it the right way..