About huge shortcuts.
Hi.
For example kz_fairy_island[+secret] and kz_fairy_island[-secret]. Secret on this map is a big sc and is another record. But maps like kz_midnight where windows bypass whole map isn't seperate and nobody knows as this map looks in integrity.
Next example is kz_man_neighbourhood and another unseperated huge sc.
But remember maps like kz_kzse_towerblock where you use techniques to jump on the window shouldn't be seperated.
Maybe you should think about seperate huge scs which use different ways to map proceed.
Examples:
- kz_man_neighbourhood
kz_man_neighbourhood[+minimap/garage/secret]
kz_midnight
kz_midnight[+windows]
kz_man_nasa/kz_man_eznasa
kz_man_nasa[+cars]/kz_man_nasa[+cars]
(On kz_man_congo_b01 carpets are seperated)
I thinks are many maps like that.
Just think about it.
the idea is maybe not bad.. but we had it already like 2 years ago and the majority of the people was against it.
one problem is that nobody plays the long way on kz_midnight and therefor it's useless, cause nobody will be interested in a record on that map.. same thing for nasa. there are 10 ppl out there playing it..noone needs a record. it'll just fill Xj's disc space
(Late... :D)
Originally posted by BooLiSHnobody plays the long way on kz_midnight and therefor it's useless, cause nobody will be interested in a record on that map
Nobody plays long way because records are not seperated so for what ? ;s
Originally posted by BooLiSH.. same thing for nasa. there are 10 ppl out there playing it..noone needs a record. it'll just fill Xj's disc space
Because people can't do this sc... It's hard. More people will be recording without it.
ya , i think good idea , but to late.
08/11/2009 12:24It's an old idea, probably the most discussed topic at XJ for the past 2-3 years... The main problem is:
What defines a "huge shortcut"? Most maps which has [+something] are maps which has multiple routes. kz_man_neighbourhood doesn't, the shortcuts on this map are shortcuts, the minimap and that is not supposed to be another route. This "rule" makes sense if you follow the principle to complete a map/route as fast as possible, using all shortcuts available and allowed.
Sure, it's sad that some maps got destroyed like this, but nobody prevents you from playing the whole map without stupid shortcuts on public, or your own LAN server.
Also, as BooLiSH mentioned, it probably wouldn't be very popular.
If this didn't clear up anything, try and read some of the old threads about this topic.
imo risk_compound needs the [+thing] thing!
coz u dont touch any block of the normal route
and that was the reason why clintmo_longjumper sc was not allowed or if i am wrong correct me!
More ways = more records = more new players with demos ;s
08/11/2009 14:25Originally posted by rolin'More ways = more records = more new players with demos ;s
stupid arguement in my eyes.
so jumpers dont need to geek a record anymore since they can beat it then on the first try :/
and please we had this discussion 3times this year use the search button first!
Originally posted by dEMoliteOriginally posted by rolin'More ways = more records = more new players with demos ;s
stupid arguement in my eyes.
so jumpers dont need to geek a record anymore since they can beat it then on the first try :/
and please we had this discussion 3times this year use the search button first!
I don't understand why you say its a stupid argument. I don't think it actually is, since its sort of true. But yeah, I've seen these threads quite alot and people really should use the search-function every time before they post to the forums.
Ontopic: as the admins/users have said in the previously created threads, shortcuts like this aren't made intentionally; they're "mistakes" done by the mapper. Sure, they sort of destroy the map itself but it is indeed just a shortcut - NOT AN ALTERNATE ROUTE.
A wonderful quote about this subject by faker (from this thread)
lol, feels like we're having this discussion over and over again every 6 months.
Trying to sum the last discussion up, since I can't find it anymore to copy'n'paste the answer:
Stuff like that won't happen. We offer 2 demos for maps with different routes, but not for maps with bug sc's. Allowing shortcuts is one of the fundamental rules of the XJ demo rules, if there are big (bug)shortcuts it's the mappers fault and there is nothing we can do about it. It wouldn't make sense to split maps like risk_compound into 2 ways (+sc and -sc) anyway, because in most of these maps there are other big shortcuts... In the case of risk_compound the -sc record would be 30 secs, using another bugsc which skips half of the map.
Some other points: How to define WHICH shortcut is worth of putting up another record with -sc? If there is a record without the shortcut (which would be way more interesting for most of the viewers), where is the point of still hosting the boring/bugged way?
Therefore: For everything that can be considered as alternative routes (planned or not): 2 (or more) WR's. Shortcuts: No way.
--
KEVLARR wrote ...
shouldn't these massive shortcuts be spotted by the map check team? and flagged it up to the mapper
The mapcheck team isn't meant for betatesting, we check the overall quality of the maps and if they deserve to be added at our website. The purpose of the maptesting is NOT finding every single bug or shortcut in it. If maps get submitted which contain a lot of bugs, we don't hesitate to tell them to the mapper, but if we get abused as beta testers the mappers and maps can get penalties, too (like delayed releases, or delayed result of the voting).
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Flibo wrote ...
Well, the mappers should test their maps for these shortcuts, and perhaps even update the map after the release if necessary.
In the case of risk_compound that would've been the best solution, because there are other big shortcuts, too.
But if you remember... there was a big discussion about changes made to maps AFTER released at that time, therfore we decided that maps can't be changed after the release. We should've made an exception, though, cause it would've been a great map without shortcuts.
I hope, that this'll settle you cowboys for a while.
Who sad secret on fairy_island and carpets on congo_b01 are another routes ?
Well it is pretty obvious...
10/11/2009 15:58Originally posted by kafdsI don't understand why you say its a stupid argument. I don't think it actually is, since its sort of true.
okay it wasnt nicely written but infact is that newer jumpers can come anytime if they spend time to record the maps.
Originally posted by dEMoliteOriginally posted by kafdsI don't understand why you say its a stupid argument. I don't think it actually is, since its sort of true.
okay it wasnt nicely written but infact is that newer jumpers can come anytime if they spend time to record the maps.
Well, true...
Originally posted by rolin'Who sad secret on fairy_island and carpets on congo_b01 are another routes ?
As m0ver said, its kind of obvious. They're not secret routes, they're other ways to go to the goal clearly designed by the mapper himself. Its as clear as the ways in clintmo_longjumper - 3 different ways, same timer/stop-button.
10/11/2009 21:26(edited 10/11/2009 21:27)Originally posted by kafdsOriginally posted by dEMoliteOriginally posted by rolin'More ways = more records = more new players with demos ;s
stupid arguement in my eyes.
so jumpers dont need to geek a record anymore since they can beat it then on the first try :/
and please we had this discussion 3times this year use the search button first!
I don't understand why you say its a stupid argument. I don't think it actually is, since its sort of true.
In my opinion:
It is not a matter of getting as many players, maps, etc. on the list. We already have too many maps on the list, many (new) which don't deserve a spot in the records section. This has made the whole demo/record section pretty bland and unattractive. Besides, we have only two demo admins who are not very active.
Thus, it is a good thing that we only accept multiple records for a map if it has several routes, it would be a total mess with all those records, and discussing which scs should have their own route or not.
Originally posted by kafdsOriginally posted by rolin'Who sad secret on fairy_island and carpets on congo_b01 are another routes ?
As m0ver said, its kind of obvious. They're not secret routes, they're other ways to go to the goal clearly designed by the mapper himself. Its as clear as the ways in clintmo_longjumper - 3 different ways, same timer/stop-button.
I wouldn't say that. I can understand that people don't think it looks like other routes. But the mapper intentionally created another path to finish his map, it wasn't a mistake, thus, another route.
14/12/2009 14:09Discussed 10 times in the history of XJ and still the same answer. Won't happen.
Alternative demos only for different courses - not shortcuts.