Cops!

cool story bro

Thanks for your input, k a f f e e! The difference between the so-called "western" countries, e.g. USA and an "eastern" one (Egypt) is that while eastern cops do have that "spare hand" you mentioned in your post and people are well aware of what could happen to them if they mess with the authorities, western cops hide behind empty slogans like "public safety", "justice", "protect and serve" and so on and so forth, essentially, making people believe in a delusive image of security.

The problem with, is that if the fragile balance between protecting and ruling is to disappear, people will be left with nothing but their own weakness, making themselves not only vulnerable, but obedient and willing to follow those with power. It might sound rather fictional, but think about it for a second and you'll find that many historical references support such an analogy.

Quoting Wiki:

The essential problem was posed by Plato in The Republic, his work on government and morality. The perfect society as described by Socrates, the main character in this Socratic dialogue, relies on laborers, slaves and tradesmen. The guardian class is to protect the city. The question is put to Socrates, "Who will guard the guardians?" or, "Who will protect us against the protectors?" Plato's answer to this is that they will guard themselves against themselves. We must tell the guardians a "noble lie".[1] The noble lie will assure them that they are better than those they serve and it is therefore their responsibility to guard and protect those lesser than themselves. We will instill in them a distaste for power or privilege; they will rule because they believe it right, not because they desire it.

kaffee lol :D If u are alone they will never stop you... if u start to run they will stop you ... if u are with friends with beer they will stop you for sure because of the beer , its not allowed on public places like parks etc.

Originally posted by TlofT

sry i didnt watch, but its a bit weird. generally i dont like any cops because they all seem like pretentious ass holes, however half of the time i've run into them, they were actually pretty considerate. letting me off on a speeding ticket for going 24 mph over (if you go 25 over, you can lose your license), letting me and 3 friends go for having weed in our car (rly should have gone to jail).

although i think cops in cities are much worse, especially to people who don't look as well off. they quickly judge them as dangerous, and between all the violence both ways over the years, it seems like it wont change.

Gargoyle, it's not surprising you don't have problems like this. Finland along with Japan and Switzerland have the lowest crime rates which is due to social equality, while the USA flies off the chart.

Indeed, my point wasn't based on whether cops suck or not. The real problem comes when society is indifferent towards such abuse and since cops stand up for each other than the ones who commit perjury in court, beat up a guy on the street, or simply mess around with you, just because they don't like the way you look.

What are we going to do about in year 2010? Sign petitions against cop abuse over the internet? That's the reality we live in and have to put up with.

If I'm to reply to your last statement, I have to get a bit off topic, but whatever.

Suppose all authority of any form is to disappear, are you going to take advantage of that and run around shooting people, raping, stealing or whatever? Is it authority that really "binds" you or is it morality itself?

Few years ago I read a science-fiction novel by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky called "Inhabited Island". One of the ideas that really caught my attention was their idea, revolving around society, run by people who were raised as responsible individuals, basically safeguarding themselves and "authority" sets nothing, but basic guidelines.

I'm sure you can come with something else only if you think outside the box, though. Learn how to question things and you'll start getting answers.

chosen, I believe all you need is a dictionary to translate the words you don't know. Once you get the main idea, you'll know what my second post was about. I believe the matter leans towards sociology, but philosophy is essential for sociology to be understood. Glad it's not only me, interested in such subjects.

You raise a valid argument that I've heard before and it makes alot of sense

[blockquote]
Suppose all authority of any form is to disappear, are you going to take advantage of that and run around shooting people, raping, stealing or whatever? Is it authority that really "binds" you or is it morality itself?
[/blockquote]

No surprise in the answer: morality, but I'd be scared shitless of people who would be bound by only the authority. The police is an authority that scares the criminals that's why they try to do their crimes secretly and without them. If the authority would disappear I'd bet on it that some people would abuse it and nobody would be able to stop them. It's about knowing human nature, and this is an excellent topic to talk about it. Human nature is as brilliant as it is violent making it a perfect combination for annihilation at best.

[blockquote]Few years ago I read a science-fiction novel by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky called "Inhabited Island". One of the ideas that really caught my attention was their idea, revolving around society, run by people who were raised as responsible individuals, basically safeguarding themselves and "authority" sets nothing, but basic guidelines.[/blockquote]

Oh how I'd love to have this, but again a major factor that makes this as possible as communism, human nature. Inhabited Island is utopia (another great book btw), perfect environment for human to develop (among other things), but an impossibility cause of... human nature.

I again, accuse it's the recruitment offices fault. It's too easy to be in an important role in America (politician, a cop, etc...).

Making the government to work must be hard but it shouldn't be bended on the IQ levels. I can't imagine any of those officers being exceptionally smart, which is why they shouldn't have been recruited in the first place. (It's a big spider web who to blame, but American dream sucks :<)

PS. I was offending those officers and G. Bush and Sarah Palin and those other morons... Not everyone who is from America. And sorry if this went too far off topic, but I find these topics rather enjoyable.

Well, human nature is out of my "expertise", but I do believe one could change if he wants to and really puts his/her mind to it. There are lots of speculations with it comes to "human nature". Some say we're worse than animals for being able to deliberately kill our own species for personal gain, commit suicide (which is only "natural" for humans) etc. Others claim that the human kind's "dominance" speaks for its superiority. Let them beat their heads, but I believe in human's ability to change. Seeing how much we've evolved in such a short period of time, I don't think it's appropriate to talk about utopia, but "possibility" instead.

I do agree that they have to raise the bar, but it's not only the IQ. Some of them cops are aggressive, intolerant and even damn straight nutjobs with inferiority complex, thinking that waving a gun compensates for the lack of... other things. Their jobs is stressful, I understand that, but can you imagine what would happen if all the stressed out people (or should I say distressed) strap a gun and "enforce the law" on anyone who looks at them the wrong way.

Unfortunately people that are attracted to power, being in control, and respect are usually also attracted to being a cop. They seem to go hand in hand. And when these types of people feel disrespected or that their "control" is being threatened they tend to act out violently.

Another thing is that here in Bulgaria, they expect a bribe of some sort when they pull you over. Money seems to fix everything. It's probably not much different in other countries.

Good point there TlofT, got nothing else to add.

Fortunately for us French people, the Cops aren't like that.
For a good and simple reason : the Human rights.

Because we wrote them and want to keep this "image" of freedom, a heaven where everybody is welcomed (which is far from being true) and happy, the government has always refused to take harsh measures against immigrants and/or even simple people, and the cops here have no power at all.

A simple example, there are dangerous neighborhoods in Paris, especially in the north of the city, I think most of you remember, in 2005 or 2006 when we got riots all over the country (it was on world TVs), there were places with guys shooting with guns on the police, but the police couldn't do anything except defending...
They didn't have the right to shoot back, because if they'd have killed one guy, the mess in the country would have grown even bigger than it already was.

I think a "right average line" needs to be found, something between our cops and american ones, because nobody repesct cops here, especially when you know that there aren't many risks to go to jail.

But I do have to agree about American cops.
I went to NYC alone, in 2007, I was just 18 (some of you might remember...) and my first impression about cops was REALLY bad.

I arrived at the airport, uber tired because of the long flight without being able to sleep, and when you enter for the first time in the US.
You're asked many things about your arrival to the US by the police, they take your digital print and a picture of you.
They question you as if you were a criminal, in a really aggressive way and I even almost failed to enter the country since I had lost the address I was going to stay in for 3 weeks, I couldn't show them so the cop girl really hesitated. She then called 2 other cops, they took me into another room and they started to ask me more questions and look into my bag...

I had also some troubles when I went into a bar/nightclub (which you're only allowed to enter if you're 21), the guy at the entrance was so dumb that he couldn't read my french ID card and let me enter.

The police came in the bar and started to checked people's ID card, they of course found out I was 18 and took me outside, in their car, they started to tell me that I couldn't be kicked off the country blablabla... They finally released me 10min after.

Now I know what to expect from the US cops, even though it wasn't THAT bad, but still I really didn't appreciate the way they acted with me, there was always some aggressivity.

I don't think they're all like this but from what I've seen and what people told me about... I can only say this movie is rather true.