Ledgeing

Started by leifi54
10/06/2012 17:54
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leifi5410/06/2012 17:54

I'm a little curious about how ledgeing works.
And by that i mean engine wise.

What is it that determines wether it's gonna be a ledge or not? And is it possible to perform a ledge whenever or is it random?
What happens when a ledge is performed?

Would highly appreciate if someone could explain this

Phinx mapper moviemaker Tournament #210/06/2012 18:57(edited 10/06/2012 18:58)

I can't exactly tell how this work's but this video kinda explains or shocks the fuck out of me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5OV9_GNT_E

I think it can be only performed with illegal kz settings + you need to gain good speed before hitting the surface.

leifi5410/06/2012 21:02

Originally posted by Phinx
I can't exactly tell how this work's but this video kinda explains or shocks the fuck out of me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5OV9_GNT_E

I think it can be only performed with illegal kz settings + you need to gain good speed before hitting the surface.


I dont think the speed matters that much, you can ledge with pretty low speed actually. You only need some speed so you can hit the ledge fairly horizontally.

As another question. How does angle affects wether its gonna be a ladge or not?

I made a little picture that shows some angle of incidences. http://i.imgur.com/uwkdx.jpg

All of these incidences (a,b,c) are ledgeable, so the only thing here that affects is the directional speed

jack frog10/06/2012 22:11

Originally posted by leifi54
I dont think the speed matters that much, you can ledge with pretty low speed actually. You only need some speed so you can hit the ledge fairly horizontally.


It does. Bibo once told me that high horizontal speed will make you do this. What you need to ledge is velocity. It is easier to control with high fps. You can ledge with 200fps, even 100 with enough speed though, but sv_airaccelerate 100 is absolutely needed.

leifi5410/06/2012 23:13

Originally posted by jack frog
Originally posted by leifi54
I dont think the speed matters that much, you can ledge with pretty low speed actually. You only need some speed so you can hit the ledge fairly horizontally.


It does. Bibo once told me that high horizontal speed will make you do this. What you need to ledge is velocity. It is easier to control with high fps. You can ledge with 200fps, even 100 with enough speed though, but sv_airaccelerate 100 is absolutely needed.


Tell me what you guys refering to high speed. I went on my lan and tried a little and with around 400 u/s i was able to ledge.

And what do you guys mean it can only be done with 100aa? 100aa or 10aa changes nothing. It dosent affect the horizontal speed. As long as you have a decent amount of horizontal speed you can ledge.

Ofc you cant run or jump into a ledge cuase the velocity is to low, but with a slide its definitely possible. So im not quite sure what you guys mean. But thanks for the answers anyway :)

But i still would like somone sharp to explain the questions i had :)

Grrr11/06/2012 00:02

Hi, its true that high horizontal speed affects u'r height after ledgeing, also I guess that frametime matters also(or the time u'r sliding on that surface) - like its different if u doubleduck on it or just slide on - when hitting that surface. Also I don't know why but airaccelerate makes big difference when ledgeing (with 10aa - not so impressive, with 100aa - u are able to fly like superman).
Note what happens with the vertical and horizontal velocity u got - after hitting ledge. I guess that they split up on components - not sure how exactly.
I don't think u'll find the answer in my post or anyone's else, perhaps u must wait for some amxx coder or c++ coder to answer. But its interesting for me too.

leifi5411/06/2012 16:36

Originally posted by Grrr
Hi, its true that high horizontal speed affects u'r height after ledgeing, also I guess that frametime matters also(or the time u'r sliding on that surface) - like its different if u doubleduck on it or just slide on - when hitting that surface. Also I don't know why but airaccelerate makes big difference when ledgeing (with 10aa - not so impressive, with 100aa - u are able to fly like superman).
Note what happens with the vertical and horizontal velocity u got - after hitting ledge. I guess that they split up on components - not sure how exactly.
I don't think u'll find the answer in my post or anyone's else, perhaps u must wait for some amxx coder or c++ coder to answer. But its interesting for me too.


Thanks for the answer Grrr, you were one of the sharp persons i was refering to :)

Anyway, to bad you didn't know either. But im still curious about the airaccelerate thing. Are you really sure you will get further with 100aa.

Let's say we you hitting the exact same spot with the exact same speed on a ledge, how could the aa value impact on how far you'll get?

k a f f e e11/06/2012 17:09

Originally posted by jack frog
You can ledge with 200fps, even 100 with enough speed though, but sv_airaccelerate 100 is absolutely needed.


this is a very weird formulation, you can ofc ledge on aa10, even with less than 100fps.

to point out something besides: usually when i did surftricks with ledging there was a certain angle and speed that made another , louder ledge-sound and boosted you speedwise. i'm pretty sure you gained alot speed just after you ledged this way... it would be interesting to know this "limit" and what requierments it takes to make it happen and why the fuck do you gain speed that way?

besides the requirments for a "normal" ledge would be interesting, and which ledging way is the best. during my days i tried:
- ledge in duck
- standup ledge
- scroll-ledge
- normal ledge

also im not sure if the horizontally speed matters, could be a illusion for me since you quickly gain speed in a turn on aa100, but i often was able to ledge more easily when i did a sharp turn onto the ledge.

i'd also like to know what makes you "bounce" (falling onto a ledge the other direction, gaining a shitload of speed), guess it also depends on the speed and angle, but what limits are there?

i hope someone who knows more about it will enlighten us

Phinx mapper moviemaker Tournament #211/06/2012 18:10(edited 11/06/2012 18:26)

Originally posted by k a f f e e
i'd also like to know what makes you "bounce" (falling onto a ledge the other direction, gaining a shitload of speed), guess it also depends on the speed and angle, but what limits are there?

i hope someone who knows more about it will enlighten us


if you mean like 0:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4TB3xjz5-g

I can say that the speed does the trick. Angle too but i tried to get higher drop on lamp with lower speed but bigger height and it wasn't so effective like with big speed and low height. I don't know does the duck or noduck matters to bounce because i did it with duck and i can do with out it.

I think there is no limits mate! because it depends on the surface you bounce and speed + height you gain!

I have some new tricks (witch ones will be in my new movie) with surface slide where i use big speed and imitate the ledging like in bibos movie. I don't know i could call that as a ledge and i can't explain the trick itself by not showing... So i would love to know what do you call ledging? Do you have to bounce of the edge or just slide the surface up..or what ?

Grrr11/06/2012 19:28

Originally posted by leifi54
Originally posted by Grrr
Hi, its true that high horizontal speed affects u'r height after ledgeing, also I guess that frametime matters also(or the time u'r sliding on that surface) - like its different if u doubleduck on it or just slide on - when hitting that surface. Also I don't know why but airaccelerate makes big difference when ledgeing (with 10aa - not so impressive, with 100aa - u are able to fly like superman).
Note what happens with the vertical and horizontal velocity u got - after hitting ledge. I guess that they split up on components - not sure how exactly.
I don't think u'll find the answer in my post or anyone's else, perhaps u must wait for some amxx coder or c++ coder to answer. But its interesting for me too.


Thanks for the answer Grrr, you were one of the sharp persons i was refering to :)

Anyway, to bad you didn't know either. But im still curious about the airaccelerate thing. Are you really sure you will get further with 100aa.

Let's say we you hitting the exact same spot with the exact same speed on a ledge, how could the aa value impact on how far you'll get?


My thoughts about the difference when changing the airacceleration value is that this cvar "air - acceleration" affects not only horizontal speed accelerate, but vertical speed also. I talk on my based experience, don't know nothing in theory here - which is blind talking. But I remember that I was making few cheated demos where I saw the difference between 10 and 100aa, ledgeing with the same speed. Also note that the trajectory when hitting that surface and sliding it off is not straight, its parabolic - because of the gravity. Also in my expirence I noticed that on ledges with larger angle u get more vertical speed, and loose some of horizontal and on ledges with lower angle u gain horizontal speed and less vertical. Still if u wanna do some experiments u should ask some mapper to make for u big-flat surface map with like 30, 45, 60 degree ledges and u can try and see what will happen when u hit them with 500-1000 speed (from hook plugin) and using gravity 0 - this way u'll avoid parabolic trajectories.

k a f f e e11/06/2012 20:03

Originally posted by Phinx
if you mean like 0:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4TB3xjz5-g


no thats simple ledging. i was talking about bouncing in the understanding of ryderec falls movie for example. gaining speed by dropping on a ledgeable surface

Originally posted by Phinx
I can say that the speed does the trick. Angle too but i tried to get higher drop on lamp with lower speed but bigger height and it wasn't so effective like with big speed and low height. I don't know does the duck or noduck matters to bounce because i did it with duck and i can do with out it.


yes everyone of those factors influences ledging

Originally posted by Phinx
I think there is no limits mate! because it depends on the surface you bounce and speed + height you gain!


i was talking about the relation between speed and angle, the limits where the different "effects" start to happen. there are like 4 things that can happen at a ledge.
#1 you get stuck
#2 you slide up
#3 you normally ledge
#4 there is a different sound and you get alot of speed from the ledge, like a "boost-ledge"

the only upper limit is the maxspeed in cs ofc

Originally posted by Phinx
I have some new tricks (witch ones will be in my new movie) with surface slide where i use big speed and imitate the ledging like in bibos movie. I don't know i could call that as a ledge and i can't explain the trick itself by not showing... So i would love to know what do you call ledging? Do you have to bounce of the edge or just slide the surface up..or what ?


sounds good man, cant wait to see it! well ledging is considered the thing that makes a noise, so #3 and #4 of the potential effects i listed

jack frog11/06/2012 20:27

Originally posted by k a f f e e
Originally posted by jack frog
You can ledge with 200fps, even 100 with enough speed though, but sv_airaccelerate 100 is absolutely needed.


this is a very weird formulation, you can ofc ledge on aa10, even with less than 100fps.

Yes but you can't do monster tricks like in the Bibo movie. Not saying that Bibo's moves are easy, certainly not, but you can still do better tricks than with 10aa only and 100 fps. 100aa is needed to gain speed on air or on the ground (gstrafing).

Well, if someone's talking about "ledging" i just think about illegal kz settings, otherwise it's kind of boring imo.

Torex-):-D moviemaker11/06/2012 23:58

ryderc falls movie is a nice example of 10air ledging, and ofc all the other settings are legal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJesMVwYR1E
the bigger the vertical speed the smaller angle of ledge will be, and the bigger horizontal speed is the bigger speed boost you will get from the ledge, also dont forget that hitting edgebug can result in a total horizontal speed loss,

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