Suggestions for cupadmins
26/03/2014 15:17Hello danger and deathclaw,
there are few things that should be answered and fixed:
- Whats the mappool you choose maps from?
- Are the maps chosen randomly?
- Why do you rematch when players push the button nearly in the same time, even if there is significant proof that one of them push it earlier (he died first)? That seems unfair to me, its like on shooting match, if you shoot first, you will kill first and survive. I dont really see a reason to rematch in this case.
- Who choose the first dismissed map? There should be a rule, I always say it first and i am sick of it. I once suggested a 0-1 generator as a simpliest plugin that can fix this.
Thats all I can remember now, thanks for your answers and take it simply as the cupplayer suggestion, you are both doing good job.
Originally posted by shooting-star- Why do you rematch when players push the button nearly in the same time, even if there is significant proof that one of them push it earlier (he died first)? That seems unfair to me, its like on shooting match, if you shoot first, you will kill first and survive. I dont really see a reason to rematch in this case.
I'm not sure but I THINK it's because ping proves an advantage at such situations, but who knows, maybe some other reason.
26/03/2014 17:38(edited 26/03/2014 17:40)Originally posted by shooting-starHello danger and deathclaw,
there are few things that should be answered and fixed:
- Whats the mappool you choose maps from?
- Are the maps chosen randomly?
- Why do you rematch when players push the button nearly in the same time, even if there is significant proof that one of them push it earlier (he died first)? That seems unfair to me, its like on shooting match, if you shoot first, you will kill first and survive. I dont really see a reason to rematch in this case.
- Who choose the first dismissed map? There should be a rule, I always say it first and i am sick of it. I once suggested a 0-1 generator as a simpliest plugin that can fix this.
Thats all I can remember now, thanks for your answers and take it simply as the cupplayer suggestion, you are both doing good job.
- Map pool - http://xtreme-jumps.eu/demos.txt
- Of course they are chosen randomly
- We rematch because one of them dies first but he's got a slower time than the other
For example: deathclaw and pizza pass some random map one of them hits the finish button first and dies his time is: 1.20.21 and the other guy hits the button and dies almost at the same time but his time is: 1.20.10 so what do we do now ?
- Who chooses the 1st map doesn't really matter you have to be a pretty big cry baby to see that as a problem (im not saying that about anyone) you just pick the map you don't want to play and that's it.. end of story
26/03/2014 18:10Actually I have to agree with ss on this one, who chooses first map to dismiss does make sense and must be approach with more due respect. Random generator plugin would make it, just gotta find a coder.
26/03/2014 19:08Actualy who dismissed the first map is pretty important.
About that "rematch" thing .... since when does the time count? Both have 5 minutes, so the timer is not important.
One question tho : it is necessary to push the start button on every match or it doesnt matter?
26/03/2014 19:11Indeed, the first who dismiss a map is fckd up.
26/03/2014 20:00Originally posted by CobrexActualy who dismissed the first map is pretty important.
About that "rematch" thing .... since when does the time count? Both have 5 minutes, so the timer is not important.
One question tho : it is necessary to push the start button on every match or it doesnt matter?
If the time didn't count there wouldn't be a time plugin
and no it's not necessary you can just go after the counter
26/03/2014 21:12Originally posted by D@NG3R`Originally posted by CobrexActualy who dismissed the first map is pretty important.
About that "rematch" thing .... since when does the time count? Both have 5 minutes, so the timer is not important.
One question tho : it is necessary to push the start button on every match or it doesnt matter?
If the time didn't count there wouldn't be a time plugin
and no it's not necessary you can just go after the counter
Its still unfair. Cup implies a race between players who get just ONE try to finish map, not the best out of X tries. If a player makes a mistake at start or just takes longer to press the start button (which is the only reason why his time is better) - it doesnt make him faster in overall, because he still finishes behind. Cup starts at the same moment for all players. Even if its very close, how close if actually fair? 10 sec, 1sec, 0.1sec? Who has defined that? No one, because this concept is defeating the purpose of cup layout at the first place.
26/03/2014 22:41Originally posted by D@NG3R`- Map pool - http://xtreme-jumps.eu/demos.txt
Do you really choose from all maps? I havent seen an AXN map so far, i would like to see all maps you choose from, not all maps.
Originally posted by D@NG3R`- We rematch because one of them dies first but he's got a slower time than the other
For example: deathclaw and pizza pass some random map one of them hits the finish button first and dies his time is: 1.20.21 and the other guy hits the button and dies almost at the same time but his time is: 1.20.10 so what do we do now ?
spr1n explained it well, bot guys start at the same position in same time, better time wins
Originally posted by D@NG3R`- Who chooses the 1st map doesn't really matter you have to be a pretty big cry baby to see that as a problem (im not saying that about anyone) you just pick the map you don't want to play and that's it.. end of story
what if players want to dismiss the same map?
if you didnt get it now, idk how to explain it to you, maybe take an apple and try to eat it twice
the thing about best time wins if both players finish barely after each other is stupid.
like sprin said both players start at the exact same time!
maybe a weird explanation but well ill give it a go
- both players press the timer at the start.
- both players fail at a certain jump and have to start over. Player A resets the timer but Player B doesnt.
- Player B gets to the finish first (dies first) but Player A has a obvious faster time.
- ???
(i know this is kinda stupid... lol)
when we had the irc cups and both players finished at the "same" time (not meaning plugin timer) and the losing player wouldve asked or demanded for a rematch i would just ask the winning player if its ok for him and if he agrees i just did a rematch and if he doesnt the match was over... at least thats how i did it
the thing with the start timer, you dont have to hit it in the beginning when the cup starts it automatically starts for the participants in the cup. this can be manipulated by one of the players hitting the start button even .01 seconds after the other player, so if they hit the end button at the same time the player who hit the start button later has the better time over all. theres really no way of knowing if they actually hit the start timer to begin with.
knox in your scenerio player b would win that since he was the first to reach the end.
now im not a cup admin i just shoutcast the matches and have no say in what happens when a situation like this occurs. this is just my perspective, i just let the cards fall where they may.
feel free to correct me if im wrong anyone :D
27/03/2014 07:34@ tidal, you're right. we could see that situation in "stonehenge" match. I had better time cuz i pressed start button after the cup started.
but imo, played who dies first should get a win (yep, thats butthurt :D) or rematch may be asked from losing player as knox said
about dismissing maps: it HAS to be a plugin which "decides" who will dismiss map 1st cuz its the only way to make it fast and fair at the same time.
Also i'd like to know how EXACTLY maps are chosen.
27/03/2014 08:05@knoxville: I could've explain it better, time I thought about is that when the first player push the button.
finally, thanks deathclaw... I really hope that will change soon
weve seen it a few times now in the cups where the times are less than 1 second from each other. its a work in progress thats for sure. something the cup admins will have to think about and fix as needed.
as for the dismissing of maps i think that we could implement a ranking system of sorts, i believe ss you shared a table of wins/losses, earnings, things to that effect. having the higher seed choose first and whomever is the lower seed would choose 2nd, which means they may have to think of 2 maps they want to dismiss since the high seed could dismiss the map they wanted to. something like that.
27/03/2014 10:04yea, i thought about that ranking-based dismissions but it seems much more complicated than a simple coin toss on a server
27/03/2014 10:27I've just made sure that the timer starts automatically as the countdown ends, even if you did not press start button, it's pretty obvious and logical that the first to hit stop button wins it, since it's about race, not your personal run time. Rematches were not necessary.
Also, shooting-start, about how danger chooses maps and handles unplayable maps. Not sure if that's how he's doing, but that's how I used to do and adviced it to danger.
You copy the demos.txt to excel so that the list is numbered.
You ask your mom to call any 27 number from 1 to 637, where 1 is 8b1_brickngrass and 637 zr_mountain.
If the number happens to point out at the map that was already recently played or that is unplayable you go down below the list until you get one that does not fall in any of those categories.
That's all.
27/03/2014 10:32(edited 27/03/2014 10:36)deathclaw picked out the maps for this cup since nobody trusts me gl hf
also about the rematch thing you guys made some good points so starting from now it's going to be: who hits the button and dies first wins, but if the other guy asks for a rematch and the winner is cool with that it's still ok, it's the winner's decision
27/03/2014 15:23cool
27/03/2014 17:05@shock - i think he removes even playable maps, there were only known maps with average difficulty max
@danger - we appreciate that, thanks
27/03/2014 19:09numbers of maps were chosen via random.org site this time. if map is unplayable, axn or was played less than 5 weeks before, it was not picked.
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