WR's with checkpoints ?
Originally posted by CamelCloudWhy not allow cp records on maps w/o records, if the map eventually gets a no cp record that will replace the cp record, regardless of time?
^THIS
28/12/2018 01:54@camelcloud
yeah tahts a great idea.
21/04/2019 13:03can we get this soon, thanks
21/04/2019 13:14this website doesn't allow, and will not allow checkpoints, however you can play extreme maps with cp on kz-rush
21/04/2019 13:30(edited 21/04/2019 13:30)not the same recording for kzrush, lmao. why is this such a big no-no for those hardest maps that will likely never get no checked? opens up for a lot of news maps to be added as well.
It's something we are working on but not for the current state of this website.
As an old stronghold of highly respected WRs this website shouldn't have any other system for recording than what it already has. Let kz-rush be the website for these "secondary" WRs. Every website should have some sort of a status of what they are seen as. XJ is the official one and it should be preserved with these principles. For example fu_extreme was thought to be impossible but given some time it got beaten.
Originally posted by JohnnyAs an old stronghold of highly respected WRs this website shouldn't have any other system for recording than what it already has. Let kz-rush be the website for these "secondary" WRs. Every website should have some sort of a status of what they are seen as. XJ is the official one and it should be preserved with these principles. For example fu_extreme was thought to be impossible but given some time it got beaten.
A lot of people proved fu_extreme to be possible no-cp way before it actually got beaten. The cp times themselves were extremely easy on this map. We will be looking at this in a deeper way, but maps like fu_extreme won't be allowed to have cp/tp records, only maps that are truly impossible to be finished without them are going to be. Take hb_lrs for example, no one should ever dare to say that this map is possible without cp.
Edit: Oh and of course, as people pointed out above (though it was already thought about it before this thread was even made) in an extremely unlikely situation where a cp/tp wrs manages to be no-cp'd all following records would be required to be no cp only regardless if time was faster or not, I think that's pretty logical assumption, but again, I doubt that would ever happen unless the administration makes quite the mistake.
22/04/2019 02:02Originally posted by JohnnyAs an old stronghold of highly respected WRs this website shouldn't have any other system for recording than what it already has. Let kz-rush be the website for these "secondary" WRs. Every website should have some sort of a status of what they are seen as. XJ is the official one and it should be preserved with these principles. For example fu_extreme was thought to be impossible but given some time it got beaten.
You can say that, but you can also say those same principles are what killed this site after the focus moved onto CS:GO. Not implementing for example CS:GO KZ. Those hard/extreme maps deserve some sort of recognition beyond being geeked on public servers or 2nd rate communities.
Originally posted by p0kerOriginally posted by JohnnyAs an old stronghold of highly respected WRs this website shouldn't have any other system for recording than what it already has. Let kz-rush be the website for these "secondary" WRs. Every website should have some sort of a status of what they are seen as. XJ is the official one and it should be preserved with these principles. For example fu_extreme was thought to be impossible but given some time it got beaten.
A lot of people proved fu_extreme to be possible no-cp way before it actually got beaten. The cp times themselves were extremely easy on this map. We will be looking at this in a deeper way, but maps like fu_extreme won't be allowed to have cp/tp records, only maps that are truly impossible to be finished without them are going to be. Take hb_lrs for example, no one should ever dare to say that this map is possible without cp.
Edit: Oh and of course, as people pointed out above (though it was already thought about it before this thread was even made) in an extremely unlikely situation where a cp/tp wrs manages to be no-cp'd all following records would be required to be no cp only regardless if time was faster or not, I think that's pretty logical assumption, but again, I doubt that would ever happen unless the administration makes quite the mistake.
Yes I totally understand the part where some mid-tier speculators/spectators had said that fu_extreme was possible but the possibility of someone even attempting it narrows down the participants by great scale. Throttle being first to even attempt and shooting-star first to succeed. It's always easy to speculate and put estimates than actually do it because still a vast number of players would record fu_extreme as a nub-record even though it is easy with CPs.
Let's say kz_hollywood stays untouched for long time being long map with few irritatingly risky jumps and gets a CP run but eventually no-cped. Would it take the nub-record away or remain with the no-cp record?
But I never said that I didn't understand this other aspect to this idea. My point was more to preserve the old ways and staying somewhat unique and different to other communities. And this also goes as an argument to what you, CamelCloud talked about earlier.
Collaborating with CS:GO KZ community on unifying the KZ groups together would be great and unique idea that only XJ would be worthy of taking as a new path for all of us rather than doing something that already exists even if the other communities might be regarded as something lesser which they definetily aren't.
22/04/2019 13:28If you implement checkpoints would you apply it on every maps? If not, how would you do it? Records should be hard to beat, the fact that there are a lot of map release make the competition less relevant day after day, checkpoints would be one more step in that direction which, in my opinion, is terrible.
22/04/2019 14:51(edited 22/04/2019 14:52)No checkpoint run > any time with checkpoints. If you did fu_insane in 5 minutes with checkpoints, a 100 minute no checkpoint run would become the new WR.
I see both sides, but I don't agree that these principles and the "identity" of XJ has to be preserved at all costs.
Pretty sure I already gave an answer to both of your questions but let me repeat myself.
Of course we won't be allowing CP runs on regular maps or even 'hard' maps. Checkpoint runs will be only allowed for true extreme to death tier maps (for instance, fu_extreme isn't even considered extreme, it is only extreme in the context of finishing it no cp, otherwise it could get an easy 3 to 4 minutes cp run, which if properly evaluated, a map like that won't be allowed to have cp records despite not having no cp finish yet)
And as I already said, in the unlikely scenario where a checkpoint map gets no-cp'd, the no-cp time will be announced as the new WR regardless of the time (it will be still a new WR even if it's slower time-wise than the cp time)
All following records would be required to be no-cp as well.
It's not as easy as it sounds, as it needs proper discussion WITH jumpers as well as they have the experience to judge which maps are truly impossible to be no-cp'd.
Let's not forget as well that the quality of the maps still remains as a criteria, meaning, a map like fu_extreme should have never been accepted in the first place, so bare this in mind as well because the map team won't go on accepting every extreme-death map for the sake of having 'CP' records in the site.
In the end, it's not going to be an easy process which is why we will try to be as careful as possible when approaching this idea in order to get the best of it.
I do not accept cp/tp runs for XJ. This community should stay as it is (individual official community for world records) imo. This is not innovation and it is not something that will fit XJ. If you're not able to finish some XJ map w/o cp's then your not good enough or either this map is impossible w/o cp's which has to be map admin fault to accept it for demo recording in first place. We can't blame the mapper in this case when his maps are going to be played in public servers.
22/04/2019 17:29I don't really support this. The idea of checkpoint world records just fights the purpose of kz the way I see it. Making extreme maps so that they're interesting to record takes great skill, anyone can make an extreme map that nobody can pass.
I would straight up remove maps from the pool that receive absolutely zero interest from players. Especially if they stay that way for years.
Originally posted by CommandeerI don't really support this. The idea of checkpoint world records just fights the purpose of kz the way I see it. Making extreme maps so that they're interesting to record takes great skill, anyone can make an extreme map that nobody can pass.
I would straight up remove maps from the pool that receive absolutely zero interest from players. Especially if they stay that way for years.
Many people have shown their great capabilities by doing extreme maps since many of the maps require extremely precise and delicate techniques and movement among many other factors. It might not have the original scent of KZ in it but it surely is another branch of it.
But what I really asked p0ker was that would there be dual-WR existing in the map information, so the CP run would be shown aswell as the no-cp run? If I was so unclear about it.
22/04/2019 19:28maybe you can do this idea in a tournament: melee cup on an extreme map using cps would be fun :D
The no-cp run will be shown above as the current WR. The cp-run will be shown in history but they won't be shown both as the current "WR".
Of course we are open to suggestions, but bare in mind that this is something that will happen in the future and we will need a serious talk with demo admins, map admins and players like you johnny, who are capable to finish the hardest and most extreme maps out there. Your insightful knowledge regarding these maps would be of extreme value to be able to properly build upon this idea and implement it in the most professional way in the new website.
Originally posted by HaMMamaybe you can do this idea in a tournament: melee cup on an extreme map using cps would be fun :D
New topic with this!
I'm definetely againts this. XJ has always been without checkpoints and that's how it should stay.
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