[full] and [md] problem - tell me your opinion!

Hello fellow jumpers,

Maybe you have seen that in latest release my demo on kzse_bhopblock[full] has been rejected. I had to ask demo admins why they rejected it and Commandeer told me that "I cut too much". At first I was shocked but then I started digging.

First of all there is no rule which says we cannot "cut too much". Furthermore, [full] rules are not even in rules page, only in this newspot. Any newcommer would skip this newspot which make rules section incomplete. That's bad.

The rule says "kzse_bhopblock[full] - player must visit all areas in a run". And at this point the discussion has started. What is the area? Is it a block part or place where will you be teleported to after the fail? It's not clear at all. I think we, as KZ players should have known the list of legit shortcuts on those maps. I did not know what should I do to make it clear and my demo were not accepted. For me area means block part/ kz part (just parts like in community maps), bhop part (beginning of area as the place where you will be teleported to after the fail). Let me know what do you think about this.

Secondly, I want to prove that my demo is legit (considering to current rules).
* in my run I did not the shortcut which kzz1lla did in his demo - shortcut which skips the every KZ part, so this is clearly a [full] way,
* rules in newspot says that I have to visit every area which I did,
* there is nothing about "cut too much" and [full] routes in rules section which make my demo 100% legit,
* there is another reason which only FAME knows ;)

I think this is hell of a mess. Furthermore, lack of routes rules in rules section is a mistake. What do you think about this? Should XJ re-write all rules about [md] and [full] routes? Rename the maps? I think huge rules update is coming up and admins should listen to players to avoid situations like this. Also do we have to stick to the rules only from rules section or from this newspot too?

At the end here is the demo: https://youtu.be/KZ3k1AAn-f0

Is it [full] route for you or I used similar route to kzz1illa to finish this map? ;) Maybe you can help me change thier minds! Thank you!

This is another stuff like the "breakable objects" aswell... everything ends in people interpretation even though like u said theres no a complete and clear rule written.

Tried to describe it last summer: https://kz-rush.ru/en/article/map-routes. The idea was to have it on xj too, but Nannou had some issues with bbcodes and that was frozen here.
If anyone wants to help with adding info, you are welcome.

Originally posted by Kpoluk

Tried to describe it last summer: https://kz-rush.ru/en/article/map-routes. The idea was to have it on xj too, but Nannou had some issues with bbcodes and that was frozen here.
If anyone wants to help with adding info, you are welcome.

I'd like to add to this the [-boost] routes on kz_man axn maps too which I think are kind of related to this. As I understand it the -boost indicates not sliding up on the start button(like icevalley) and pressing the end button through the floor. But because people are clever they just found another way to skip the map which is basically the same thing. So now we have runs that are just a few milliseconds and a few seconds and neither are actually doing a route like the map is supposed to. I'd love for the -boost category to restrict using the floor for a speedboost

Originally posted by nike

I'd like to add to this the [-boost] routes on kz_man axn maps too which I think are kind of related to this. As I understand it the -boost indicates not sliding up on the start button(like icevalley) and pressing the end button through the floor. But because people are clever they just found another way to skip the map which is basically the same thing. So now we have runs that are just a few milliseconds and a few seconds and neither are actually doing a route like the map is supposed to. I'd love for the -boost category to restrict using the floor for a speedboost

We're aware that the lack of clear explanation on routes is a massive problem at the moment. This should have been done correctly when the routes were implemented. The main problem here is simply the definition of "area", if we had a clear ruleset about the routes there would be no room left for misunderstandings.

I think slahackovy_kolac is the only one who understood the idea of a full route. The purpose of full routes is to make players play the map the way the mapper intended it to be played. Meaning visiting all block parts and not allowing any massive shortcuts.

I would also like to mention that Nannou was working on implementing the same set of route rules for XJ as you can see on kzrush (routes). If he didn't need to focus on other things at the moment the rules would already be in place and none of this would happen. We will from now on use the same rules for the routes as kzrush to avoid any possible confusion between recording for different communities. As mentioned before there might be a few maps missing and we might already have records that violate the rules written on kzrush. I'm sure you all understand this will be quite a big amount of work and won't happen right away.

I completely agree with nike especially after seeing the last release. Having routes like that make no sense. Also hardbitter that would be a very nice feature, to see all possible map info/rules when checking the map info on the page.

I'm sure you understand implementing a ruleset now might conflict with existing demos. And we will look at them case by case to figure out the best way to deal with each map.

Not sure why you're using the word "easier" here, like I already said on steam I asked the head demo admin if he considered your route to be full and he agreed it was not. And since he was the one to write that route rule I believe he knows what he had in mind as the full route. Of course you can keep bashing the administration for rejecting your demo all you want but unfortunately your demo will stay as rejected for now.

Thanks for the kind words towards me tho, I'm really liking being a demoadmin here so far.

Originally posted by Commandeer

Thanks for the kind words towards me tho, I'm really liking being a demoadmin here so far.

Well there's a difference between -md and full, so maybe some maps should change its name after clear rules are written? I don't know to be honest, because here, if the name would've -md, we wouldn't be arguing this, so maybe a renaming would be something to have in mind as well to avoid such problems. Check risk_ministry[full], the little part where Klefer starts kzing on the regular map, is skipped on the full route, so the question is, should the player go through those five jumps, or is too burocratic to delete the demo just because of it?