Timer discussion
04/02/2021 08:14(edited 04/02/2021 08:17)Seems I have to make this because people are still confused. If the rule is badly worded I'm taking suggestions on how to write it as clearly as possible.
1. This rule is old but wasn't written down until now:
Plugins that give you any kind of visual aid/information are not allowed. This includes wr bots, ghosts, time zones, collision warnings etc. The same applies to any timer plugins that give you real time information compared to the current world record.
2. Real time information is not the same thing as checkpoints/time zones.
3. You can have time zones/checkpoints without the visual aid. Visual aid here means actual squares or boxes in your map that you have to run through, displaying a time difference to a wr on the screen from a checkpoint is allowed.
4. If you're confused as to why real time info is not allowed, imagine having an actual wr bot running beside you. Would it help players to push records? Of course. Would it be completely unfair towards all old records? Yes it would. This is something you can't change my mind on, real time info will not be allowed.
04/02/2021 09:40yes
O_o gj
I'm not quite sure about "actual squares or boxes in your map" because, at that point, we might as well let people use sprites that would make pixel-walking easier. Anyways, I believe that it would be extremely beneficial to have sort of a segmented timer, like the ones that some speedrunning communities allow their runners to set up using LiveSplit.
While Kreedz is not an actual game with different levels that we can assume as segments, the game's main objective is the same.
The whole thing i was saying in chat is the segmential timer, with comparing your time with wr or specific player's or even yours time (can be called kz zone but without any color/sprite)..i agree with JmPix^
About Commandeer's i dont understand what should we say about it...suggest which of these 4 are best to use as rule?
04/02/2021 14:42Plugins that give you any kind of visual aid/information are not allowed.
This is ambiguous. Depending on how you interpret this you might think LJ stats and replacing the round timer with a real timer were forbidden.
Originally posted by Commandeer3. You can have time zones/checkpoints without the visual aid. Visual aid here means actual squares or boxes in your map that you have to run through, displaying a time difference to a wr on the screen from a checkpoint is allowed.
I don't think this is obvious from the wording.
Here's my attempt at rephrasing the rule based on above feedback:
Plugins that add or modify visual elements in a map are not allowed. This includes WR bots, ghosts, visual time zones, collision warnings etc.
Note that you can have time zones/checkpoints without the visual aid. Visual aid here means actual 3D rendered squares or boxes in a map that display a time difference to the WR on your screen as you run through them.
04/02/2021 19:58(edited 04/02/2021 20:01)"I just see the ingame timer and I instantly know how fast I am. I don't see a reason why I need another plugin for that as well as the restriction in the rules." - shooting-star +1
Please guys...
I have idea for you all looking for KZ zones:
If WR run is for example 5 mins, the place where record holder reach at every 1 minute (or every 30 secs ,however) mark it with one spray,and in run when you reach that point you will see on round timer, like SS said, are you actually slower or faster. There is always solutions but you have to think, you cannot have every single fk' number on the screen, skill will help you to beat wr not some plugin ( only if we are not talking about cheats). Nice done commy
Originally posted by SAJKEE"I just see the ingame timer and I instantly know how fast I am. I don't see a reason why I need another plugin for that as well as the restriction in the rules." - shooting-star +1
Please guys...
I have idea for you all looking for KZ zones:
If WR run is for example 5 mins, the place where record holder reach at every 1 minute (or every 30 secs ,however) mark it with one spray,and in run when you reach that point you will see on round timer, like SS said, are you actually slower or faster. There is always solutions but you have to think, you cannot have every single fk' number on the screen, skill will help you to beat wr not some plugin ( only if we are not talking about cheats). Nice done commy
It doesnt help you beat it, as i said previously giving surf on csgo as an example, on some maps u dont really wamt to think about the timer cuz you have to be focused on the actual gameplay (sure not all maps require that much focus and not many maps would benefit from time zones, depends on how long etc a map is). But my point wouldve been that on lets say kz world which is a huge map, you will see after 1st stage if you are 30 sec behind ur pb/wr much easier and you can assume much easier if you can or not make up for it in the following stages without wasting another 20 mins.registering pbs for each stage would also be cool but thats too far for now
05/02/2021 11:13Why do I feel like Flibo is the only one who has understood this so far. Thanks for the suggestion, looks better than the current version.
I would say the whole idea of allowing time zones in record attempting runs is unfair to the previous record holder and there's no real use for something like that. If a person wanted to beat a time, he/she would attempt it regardless if they had 3D times zones as mentioned above. World records aside, times zones would be cool for public servers.
Originally posted by FliboHere's my attempt at rephrasing the rule based on above feedback:Plugins that add or modify visual elements in a map are not allowed. This includes WR bots, ghosts, visual time zones, collision warnings etc.
Note that you can have time zones/checkpoints without the visual aid. Visual aid here means actual 3D rendered squares or boxes in a map that display a time difference to the WR on your screen as you run through them.
Part with green text: you can have time zones/checkpoints
What does it mean exactly? If it is not allowed to have chat/hud info how much you are slower/faster, what will 'timezone' represent then?
05/02/2021 16:44Originally posted by JocAOriginally posted by FliboHere's my attempt at rephrasing the rule based on above feedback:Plugins that add or modify visual elements in a map are not allowed. This includes WR bots, ghosts, visual time zones, collision warnings etc.
Note that you can have time zones/checkpoints without the visual aid. Visual aid here means actual 3D rendered squares or boxes in a map that display a time difference to the WR on your screen as you run through them.
Part with green text: you can have time zones/checkpoints
What does it mean exactly? If it is not allowed to have chat/hud info how much you are slower/faster, what will 'timezone' represent then?
I was under the impression that you are allowed to have that information in your HUD/chat. Maybe that should also be clarified in the rule.
05/02/2021 16:59So do I understand right that the discussion in the chatbox was pointless and all text info in chat/hud is actually legal? Great!
I think we should first know what is allowed (or not) with the simplest possible words, and then implement a rule for it....seems that we are currently totally lost with chat/visual aid/kz zone/3d render ect
05/02/2021 20:23I agree with joca, this whole thing is a huge mess.
05/02/2021 20:35Originally posted by zverIt doesnt help you beat it, as i said previously giving surf on csgo as an example, on some maps u dont really wamt to think about the timer cuz you have to be focused on the actual gameplay
Make a thread than on some csgo surf web topic,not here :D
Originally posted by SAJKEEOriginally posted by zverIt doesnt help you beat it, as i said previously giving surf on csgo as an example, on some maps u dont really wamt to think about the timer cuz you have to be focused on the actual gameplay
Make a thread than on some csgo surf web topic,not here :D
Its a discussion thread, i dont see any difference why one can work and the other not. It was just my opinion with an example lol
just record two demos, one to tell us what is not allowed 2nd one what u can use and drop it in rules or bad idea?
06/02/2021 13:39It's sort of confusing to me why this is frowned upon, this must be the only speedrunning game where splits are disallowed.
07/02/2021 12:27(edited 07/02/2021 12:33)It often feels like I'm in r/explainlikeimfive when trying to write down anything in this community.
Another suggestion:
"Plugins that add or modify visual elements in a map are not allowed. This includes WR bots, ghosts, visual time zones, collision warnings etc. Note that you can have time zones/checkpoints that print the info in chat or HUD, as long as the time zones/checkpoints are not visible in the map.
Displaying real time info compared to any other demo is not allowed in any form."
Q&A:
- Time zones/checkpoints ARE ALLOWED as long as they're not visible in the map
- Real time info is not the same as time zones/checkpoints, and real time info is not allowed.
- Map is not the same thing as HUD or chat.
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