We want to know...
Hello =)
I think it would be good to know what the community thinks about some things.
What is a good climber?
Why currently longjumping is the most important thing?
What glance have you got about these things and the community?
To start this topic, I'll put these messages (by ichirou and me):
I think kz jumpers these days train too much longjumps :)
There's very many that can jump over like 247? Even though they can't complete some maps where the longest lj is 240?
I don't really get it... if I tell people my lj record is 250 I'm almost getting this response "Omg lol, you're so noob.. .my record is 251!!!"... and then their fastest time on kz_cliffez is on 3:30 ;S
You get what I mean right? This is from my personal experience only tho... but kz jumpers these days are better at longjumping than actual fast climbing. Most are actually unnecessary too good at longjumping considering the diffuculty of todays longjumps in the maps.
I'm just rambling... I've just been a bit confused lately :D
Edit:Originally posted by Minn0w249x2 easy (examplre for faker..) for me 2
I'm sure I could do this... but it would probably take one/two hours of pure geeking or something and you say it's easy? What does easy really mean in your opinions ;S
It makes me laugh =)
Currently, almost everybody thinks like that:
good longjumper = good climber
good bhopper = good climber
fast climber = good climber
pro recorder = good climber
Almost all of you are wrong.
How many times have I seen guys who did 250+ and who were (very) bad @ climbing?
Too many times...
Just look at the LJ thread, look how many jumpers pwnd 250 and spect' them in a public server.
You will laugh.
It's just an example among many others...
You are a good climber only, and only if:
you can finish MANY maps,
you can climb easily on all kinds of map (block, hard, bhop, easy etc...),
you have constancy (you can climb quickly, and without falling 999xxx times)
and if you are patient.
Just think about everything I said previously,
you will have another glance on the concept of skill, in this 'kz-world'...
So now,
have fun :D
[ Edited ]
+1 ndr
+11 totally
+111 agree
:up:
I'm too lazy to read all this :!
yeah your right :) gj
I don't want any 'GJ' or '+1' :/
Just some answers, and your opinion about that...
of course ljing can help to beat these maps better but imo in most of them a nice bhop skill, like z0ck3r for example has it, is way more important, coz when you own with bhop you can do about 90% of the maps way faster than with a good lj skill. ok, on kz_man_ultrablock (or what it was called) the ultra hj sc can only be done with a certain lj skill...
screw lj > 250 :D
(had to short comment - gay phone. will comment again tomorrow)
[ Edited Sat Apr 14 2007, 01:04AM ]
14/04/2007 01:04Just look at the LJ thread, look how many jumpers pwnd 250 and spect' them in a public server.
You will laugh.
for sure u have comment it really right.
You are a good climber only, and only if:
you can finish MANY maps,
you can climb easily on all kinds of map (block, hard, bhop, easy etc...),
you have constancy (you can climb quickly, and without falling 999xxx times)
and if you are patient.
Agree with it too cause when u can bhop and when u can do longjumps u aren't a projumper or a good climber.
Only when u have done these thinks!
Hm...won't write much yet, but i think in most cases you are right
Where i disagree a bit is:
fast climber = good climber
pro recorder = good climber
cause i think that's correct and you say it isn't...
arguable topic, but i don't wanna argu now^^ (but i understand what you mean)
The rest of your and ichi's posts is correct...
I already noticed that the LJ-Thread is boiling over with more and more demos...
and to say
Many demos --> we simply height the limit
is nonsense... soon the limit will be 250 and we will have 100x 250 demos, but you cant heighten anymore.
Although it's important to have a basic lj skill... sometimes I envy these people, because i can do all jumps on sandblock without problems, but i have problems at the longjumps...
My record is more than 240, but it's not constant :(
A good climber is for me someone who can do all kinds of maps: bhop as well as a hard climb or a blockmap...
Or at least one type of jumps very good and the others "just good"
AND HE MUST HAVE STUDIED KREEDZJUMPING FOR AT LEAST 2 YEARS IN THE UNIVERSITY AND MUST HAVE A THEORETIC AND PRACTICAL EFFICIENCY STATEMENT! :!
Ok I'll stop talking bullshit here, good night^^
[ Edited Sat Apr 14 2007, 01:28AM ]
totally right, allround player for the win! As long as you can do at least 240, your bhops are decent and youre consistent, then youre a good climber in my eyes
i think u and ichirou are right :p
I think one of the most important things is consistency, atm only those with the endurance to climb at the top of their skill on a long map, or make those hard sc's everytime who can beat records and pwn everybody in cups.
Being über at longjumps or bhops will only get you so far.
And of course there are those who occasionally find uber sc's and can claim the rec without any effort :D
Being able to tackle nervousity is also a very good feat, many people are extremely good when just fooling around on maps, but suck when it really matters. :D
%300 agree with ndr
I always have this same argument @ climbers arg forums, new jumpers come and ask for advice to lonjump better (mainly because in kz there is no way to say "xxx is better than xx" so the longjump record kind of gives em an idea of where they stand) i say longjumps aren't nowhere near as relevant as speed and bhops, and to train too much lj is useless and a waste of time cause you wont ever need to jump +245(maybe to do some random sc but u cant always prestrafe properly so it matters more having nice strafes than your lj record)
I am a pretty well known jumper and when people on servers ask me about my longjump record they get dissapointed to hear that i "only" jump 247(7 units more than i need to complete any map) i get lots of "i can do that too" from guys that like ichirou said need 5-6 minutes to beat erarock.
Like I said @ climbers arg discussing with igna and thedy, "just check out the longjumps records thread, 90% of them haven't proben to be good climbers.
So to sum it up, leet longjumping makes a good jumper better, but it does not make someone a good jumper by itself.
Being able to tackle nervousity is also a very good feat, many people are extremely good when just fooling around on maps, but suck when it really matters. :D
word Murvelman (to ur whole comment) :)
[ Edited Sat Apr 14 2007, 01:49AM ]
good longjumps = sexy strafes = good times!
Just a mistake...
Sorry :x
[ Edited Sat Apr 14 2007, 02:50AM ]
Bibo go do kz_cg_extreme backwards in a decent time! NOW!
bibo is actually a good climber, ive seen him climb. But, i do agree with you on this one, but one thing. Back around 3 months ago I was only concerned with longjumps, and that is basically the only thing I did, and cared about. I eventually pwned 250 a couple times. I started getting obsessed with longjumping because maybe the thrill of actually seeing yourself pwn such a jump that months before you couldn't even imagine yourself doing. Yes, I agree with the fact that you have to be a well-rounded jumper to call yourself "good." And yes, if someone uknown starts only longjumping, i wouldn't consider them to be a good jumper because of this only because they never practice on maps that actually matter in records. You don't see WR times on longjump maps do you? No. . .but the since of longjumping gets your hopes up. . .or down depending on how good your strafes are that day. But I think longjumping, maybe only for me, is way to inconsistant. The only way to become a good jumper is to actually practice real maps, old school maps, every type of map, and not SOLY long jumps. That my opinion. But don't say that I don't like watching good longjumps because they're strafes are really cordinated, I'm just saying that usually people that are concerned with long jumps usually take 20 times slower to complete a map because they jump slower since they haven't adjusted to the maps they normally play. Blaaahhhhh! ! !
too much lj is useless and a waste of time cause you wont ever need to jump +245
I agree partially with this statement. The only thing that i don't agree with you on this is that if you practice longjumping for a while then you eventually cordinate your strafes more efficiently than if you were just trying to jump regular maps. And this helps you on regular maps because you feel like you can jump the maps easier with your "perfected" strafes rather than never practicing ljs. But yes, lj'ing too much is useless.
Omg lol, you're so noob.. .my record is 251!!!"... and then their fastest time on kz_cliffez is on 3:30 ;S
Perfectly explained, I don't think I couldv'e said this any better. My theory is that when you are lj'ing your speed will never really increase because you are never pressured to do a "fast LJ", but this is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you have to do in a run. You can't set up your jumps and and set up your jumps so on and so forth. You can't do that to get a good time. So ya, nice words ichirou and ndR'
P.S. I need to get internet back in my room, this is killing me!!
[ Edited Sat Apr 14 2007, 05:15AM ]
i think the reason why ppl are careing so much about LJs is because it's the only official way to meassure a players skill.
If you say have i have dod kz_xj_unknownnoopmap in 1:01. And another guy says i have done kz_xj_noobmap2 in 1:02. Then we don't know who's the best of them. But if one of them says. I have done 253 units and the other only hace done 245 then we kinda have an idea that the 253 unit guy is a better jumper.
If there was 1 map (let's say kz_cliffez) as an offical map to test who was the fastest jumper. Then everyone would geek that map. Just to be crowned as the fastest jumper in the world.
Both of you are right.
For me a good climber is dude who can finish kz_cg_extreme under 1hr. And a dude who is doing well in cups, u only need geeking for pwning recs.
Funny how some probhoppers think they are uberleet cuz they can do standupbhops and finish ubereasy bhop maps 10seconds faster than others.
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