ndR's demo on kz_cg_lost_castle
Ndr's demo shouldn't be accepted
kz_cg_lost_castle ndR 03:54 98.74
RULLESS
You may not destroy brakeable objects (like bridges for example) or push buttons (with an exception for HP boosters) before you have pushed the start button.
he pushed the buttons before he satrted the timer so demo its not valid :(
03/01/2008 06:24I pushed buttons before the round I recorded :)
It's totally allowed, you musn't push buttons before pushing the timer, but only the actions in the demo aren't allowed.
You got it?
zhady's demo was the same btw.
You can do whatever you want before a WR demo, you just have to do a restartound, and that's what I did.
Pushing the button -> restartround -> pushing the timer -> WR
hmm.. i always thought about doing something like this on some maps, but i thought it would be considered as cheating. apparently it's not and it's not going against any of the demo rules so gj ndR :)
and btw i think this creates an sc on kz_cup_storage also because if you press the button and restart the round, the door will still be open and by doing this, you save about 10 seconds or so
well its allowed but only at lost_castle its not allowed on other maps.
i have a statement from thopa about this (i was asking him about a demo i wanted to submit, where i was using a similar method):
Session Start: Sat Jun 16 17:58:42 2007
(19:48:32) Yo.. me, stukad and faker talked about this way, and demos won't be accepted because you push the button before you start
(19:48:43) and faker also know he made a wrong decision about lost castle, but too late
(19:49:01) he didnt even think about the rules when he submitted that demo.
...
(00:16:21) Nothing will happen to lost_castle since that decision was made like 1 year ago, and it hasnt happened since
admins are allways right,, but imo it´s like ndR said,
he did a restart!
So i don´t understand it, since the buttons are reseted too...
???
03/01/2008 16:16Well it's before pushing the start button. It's not like restartround would make it legal.
03/01/2008 16:38yeah kinda gay...
Alright this thread is a bit confusing, cus if it really gives an (haven't watched it) advantage, then it will also be more difficult to beat today, even if it was recorded one year ago. It also could have been 'godmode' which gave the advantage, should that be allowed to? Not that I care so much, and it's fine if doesn't make that big of a difference.
Just one question, is it allowed to open doors before pushing the button?
The kz_cg_lost_castle demo is an exception to the rules. It was incorrectly released, but since this was realized way to late we've given this map special rule(s). Anyone can record it like ndR and zhady has done. But if you do it on other maps. They won't be accepted.
It's not accepted to use godmode.
It's not accepted to open doors before you push the button.
I did the same thing on my first demo of kz_cg_extreme. I pushed the gate button before the start button. I didn't even think of it as a problem, but it saved me 3 seconds. The demo got accepted, but since people (1 or 2.. :p) commented on that I improved the demo.
PS. I changed the topic name.
Ok, that's fine.
"It's not accepted to open doors before you push the button."
Not to cause any more confusion, but why is the clintmo_bhopwarehouse demo legal? tjubby opens the door and then push the start-button through the wall(at the other side of the door).
I get there's exceptions on some maps, due to different rules at the time they were recorded. But it would just be nice to know in which maps that counts. :)
04/01/2008 03:21lots castle is really "out of the grid"...
another problem with lost castle is: if you press the buttons once you can hit them through the walls the next runs, so actually you should have to restart the map after every single try to have it back the original stage...
That wouldnt make sense, would it?
Thats why we made an "exception" / didn't deny it in the first place.
well what about just dont abuse the bug and dont push the buttons through the wall? wouldnt that make more sense then allowing it or restarting?
i mean if you dont abuse this bug you dont get any advantage from pushing the buttons before. imo the rules should get changed like this:
You may not destroy brakeable objects (like bridges for example) or push buttons (with an exception for HP boosters) before you have pushed the start button to gain an advantage.
because in theory you even need to restart the server on lets say collage or fairyisland because in fact you have pushed buttons before the round. but you dont gain any advantage.
this would make the rules a bit more clear
got confused to :(
never mind then gj for those demos :D
04/01/2008 18:57Platon made the first demo on this map doing the same trick as ndR but that didn't get accepted IIRC :/
[blockquote]I pushed buttons before the round I recorded
It's totally allowed, you musn't push buttons before pushing the timer, but only the actions in the demo aren't allowed.
You got it?
zhady's demo was the same btw.
You can do whatever you want before a WR demo, you just have to do a restartound, and that's what I did.[/blockquote]
oh so i can haxx the game and cheat whatever i want before i push the button...
05/01/2008 07:04
[blockquote]I pushed buttons before the round I recorded
It's totally allowed, you musn't push buttons before pushing the timer, but only the actions in the demo aren't allowed.
You got it?
zhady's demo was the same btw.
You can do whatever you want before a WR demo, you just have to do a restartound, and that's what I did.[/blockquote]
oh so i can haxx the game and cheat whatever i want before i push the button...
You can do all the forbidden things during the round before a WR (gravity, hook, semi-clip, pushing a button, even using scripts/hacks...).
That was the principle I used.
And the first time I recorded 4:04, faker said it was allowed, so...
Originally posted by ndRYou can do all the forbidden things during the round before a WR (gravity, hook, semi-clip, pushing a button, even using scripts/hacks...).
That was the principle I used.
And the first time I recorded 4:04, faker said it was allowed, so...
well you cant im pretty sure about that i could dl some plugin that allows me to move object for instance the stopbutton and place it next to the startbutton. and if i restart round its legal? i could do all maps with 0 sec on this way... i dont think a RR would make that legal... so why should other forbidden things that give an advantage be legal?
ofc no offense against you ndR. i dont know who was the first one who submitted a illegal demo on lost_castle, but at the time you made your demo the rules already allowed it. ndR(me) asked the admins if its legal before he recorded the demo so its not like hes the bad guy for tricking the rules. the exception was made long before ndRs demo. it only got so much attention because at the SC at the beginning its easy to spot that he pushed a button before his record run. but on the record before, target did the same thing he just didnt done the SC at the beginning but he pushed the buttons before the run to be able to push the buttons through the wall later. see targets demo here: http://sjs-webspace.extra.hu/demos/kz_cg_lost_castle_tarGet_0420.rar
i think admins didnt know that you have to push the buttons before the record run so your able to push them through the wall at the time they accepted the demo. when they found out they tought about it like faker said and decided that its allowed because of what faker said a few posts above.
I 100% Agree with sj^ You can't break anything, you can't push anything, you musn't do anything other then push the button :)
05/01/2008 10:47(edited 05/01/2008 10:49)I haven't even watched the demo or ever played the map, but I think it would be pretty stupid to have to changelevel/start a new game always when you fail in that map because you have pushed the buttons in your run. Pretty much same thing in 2man_concreteblock. bhopwarehouse is different, because he actually gains no advantage for opening the door, because he can push the button from inside without having to open the door, though with only using teleport/noclip, which I personally think shouldn't be allowed.
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