Map Presentations
09/07/2008 22:59Feedback Stuff:
I really notice it for now 2years, that the scene is going really under with the commenting and feedback stuff.
So thats why i am creating that post.
Not so much peoples are knowning it that mappers makes map to get feedback from their work. So when they are posting screenshots in a new thread called kz_simplename, they want to get feedback or critism what they can change or what could stay in the finalmap. With the thinking of and mindblowing the mappers will take some of the feedbacks or critisem which they thinks which would fit in their map.
So one of the biggest problems in the Map Previews forum on XJ is the commenting feedback stuff.
I heared it from some of the mappers which came back and start mapping again, but after a while they aren't interested in mapping further for kzmaps, because of the commenting/feedback stuff. The mappers get bored or angry when they see stuff on their previews thread: "awesomee" "looks very hard" "gj" "wau new map" "holyshit you are back" "uh new map?"
This shouldn't be there. They want some feedback, how the map is looking and how the users thinks of the atmosphere and so on.
So maybe you guys can take a bit more time for a feedback/comment, instead of only 30secs or 1minutes. Take 3 or 5minutes to create a post and look on the screenshots to get a better feeling for that comment/feedback.
Mappers and their feedback:
This is another problem in the mapping scene. Many new mappers takes the feedback personally and after that they will be angry on the mappers or on the users who wrotes the comment/feedback.
So the only advice which is given from many mappers: "You shouldn't take critisems,feedbacks or even comments personally. After that maybe you can get inrage with the feedback/comment author. And that will get the community more in troubles."
Thx for your time to read this.
Specially thx to the mappers which wrote with me over this subject!
nice demolite:)
tl; dr.
Good job doing exactly what he suggested not to do, Noddanw0w.
Anyway, I totally agree dEMolite, but I have one thing to say about mappers taking things personally. I understand that you're just trying to give criticism and help the mappers improve, but sometimes you just come off as an asshole pointing out everything that's wrong with the map. Instead the person who gives feedback needs to say not only what should be improved, but also what he likes about the map already. I'm sure the mappers also appreciate to hear that they did a good job on something.
10/07/2008 00:03(edited 10/07/2008 00:06)gj
Edit:
Not going to be a total ass here.. Hmm very great post DeMolite, I agree with you!
I think the word gj should be banned from the forum.. If you really have to say good job, you say good job, not fucking gj. And like s1gh said, it's not funny to only get the bad parts of your map, thrown in your face, you need to focus on the good parts too.
10/07/2008 00:50yeah right s1gh and wrath^ but if someone is posting only bad things, sometimes it can mean it twice: maybe there aren't any good things or there are some good. btw i will try to point the good things out too :)
10/07/2008 07:17(edited 10/07/2008 07:19)You`re right about the feedback/recommendation stuff but somehow it does also depend on how the thread is presented, many people here cant give a good feedback/criticism if there is only 1 bad screen and nothing written about the map.
Well dEMolite this is just one of the problems in mapping scene. Many guys who post in this section gives that "gj, wow n1, etc.." without writing a few rows, so that mapper should have a clue of what he made, only for that legendary +1 post ! Someone should handle this and ban/delete those post/users for saying that 2 words post.
Another problem (and i'm sure you agree with me) is the attitude of the mappers towards the new guys who want to learn how to map.
This problem is seriusly affecting the new commers and for this they quit... stop making what they wanted to do. It's so damn upseting when you're hit right in the face by "practice more, can't help, got work to do" etc... As an exemple of what i wrote above, a good one is the channel of mappers ...
The legendary +1 post, haha. Don't forget the ultra legendary "word."
Originally posted by dEMoliteyeah right s1gh and wrath^ but if someone is posting only bad things, sometimes it can mean it twice: maybe there aren't any good things or there are some good. btw i will try to point the good things out too :)
Of course there can't only be bad things. Everyone has their own oppinion. :) So for you it might look bad, but for me it might be the best I have ever seen. :>
10/07/2008 14:13Originally posted by kzro`CyclopP... It's so damn upseting when you're hit right in the face by "practice more, can't help, got work to do" etc... As an exemple of what i wrote above, a good one is the channel of mappers ...
Not everyone in that channel says that... f.e. I and dEMolite (and some others) help everyone as we can... What p....es me off is, that the newcomers asks something like "where's my hammer icon gone?" or "How to create a solid block?" If you really want to get a normal answer, then ask normal questions like "Why may compiler doesn't do that or that? Here's log = "
+ there's still many tutorials around here for them...
10/07/2008 16:00Yeah, I also try my best to help people. But when someone comes in and asks "how can I apply textures", stuff like that..
Well I can't give a damn. People should at least use some basic tutorials before they start asking other people about everything.
10/07/2008 16:06(edited 10/07/2008 16:07)thumbs up! but i also want feedback when the map is released to the public
wanna know what the magority thought about it...
but i rearly here anything then just gj wow new maps and stuff like that...
10/07/2008 16:52(edited 10/07/2008 16:58)I agree with pretty much everything said above, except Noddan's and Mehz' post .. And also, the "sheet" that each member of the mapcheck team fill out and write "yes" or "no" at the end of, should be sent to the mappers too during the time their map is being tested by the mapcheck team.
Maybe we should choose a few persons, (who likes to give feedback on the maps) that each maprelease take some of their time to write feedback on each map... and of course, other people should be more than welcome to give such feedback also.
The admins posting maps should remind people about this in the newspost also.
I think most people (I've done that too, but I slowly started to realize it sometime ago) consider maps as a "free resource of fun", and maybe don't realize that these mappers are spending a lot of time on their maps, without getting payed, and therefore also would like some feedback, when their maps is finally released/previewed in a thread, so they can learn from that to make better maps.
I don't think many mappers make maps just to satisfy the community/people, but when you get some great feedback it's just feels so much better, and you probably want to make more maps, to show people what they can do better next time.
EDIT: I'm personally not a fan of previewing maps in a thread, I'd rather surprise people by releasing the map when it's done, although, you can learn/improve a lot by previewing your map in the forum if a few people take more than 30 seconds to write some constructive and honest feedback on the map (said in a polite way, of course). It's just hard to say how we would get people to write more feedback. The guys that writes "gj, n1" probably won't read these long posts anyway.
Pieshels, yea not everyone.... but the majority of mappers says that. It only takes a few of those to have that tent and the atmosphere is f*c*ed up. We don't need them... not even 1 of them. I don't want to enter in this subject, because dEMolite started this topic with another purpose.
I think the best solution for mappers to have a feedback and to know how they handle making that map is a review. Just like at cs movies/movies in general or anything else...
Personally, from now on, i'll try to make a review at every maprealese.
[blockquote]This is another problem in the mapping scene. Many new mappers takes the feedback personally and after that they will be angry on the mappers or on the users who wrotes the comment/feedback.[/blockquote]
Very good to write down this. Maybe mappers will understand more after reading your post. Hopefully they keep the stuff in their mind and dont get angry about the negative comments.
Should be a sticky post but with a better topic.
rant thread #1
People can say gj if they feel like it. If you want real criticism, I would post my map on a site that is actually filled with mappers that know what they are talking about.
10/07/2008 23:35sorry but thats not arogant or something but after kreedz left he was the onliest mapper which made money with kreedzmaps. and nowdays the mapper makes it for free. so the peoples can offer a bit more time for a post then a GJ because we the mappers are taking their free time to finish a map 1-3days or even 1-3months and for such hard work a GJ is really angry for the mappers which took so much free time.
Originally posted by Mehz[ASSHOLE]
rant thread #1
People can say gj if they feel like it. If you want real criticism, I would post my map on a site that is actually filled with mappers that know what they are talking about.
even if ppl have no idea how to use the vhe (mapeditor for hl maps) ppl should be able to write their own opinion mehz... also giving out the rmf or whatever the sourcefiles are called to other mappers who know how to map could help a lot.
same with amxx plugins... some may work but how they work is just ugly (maps may look nice but some may be mapped nubby)
I never said they couldn't give their opinion, what I'm saying is you would probably get more detailed criticism on IE kreedz.com
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