Making risk_compound to a 2 ways map ?
Well that was just to compare_fairy island with other maps. I would never call the scs in bhopblock and compound for secrets.
I see 2 possible solution for fairy_island, compound and bhopblock. Remove fairy_island "normal" way from record demos or add "normal" way to compound and bhopblock.
06/10/2008 14:48(edited 06/10/2008 14:49)Why normal way to bhopblock?
+1000 FragMcCracken
It's hard to select the right maps which should be split. You can't really tell how big a shortcut is and make a rule for how big shortcut will be allowed. Also Z0ckerOO7 has a great point, risk_compound has other huge shortcuts too, would the -sc way allow them or what? Huh? That just makes an additional ridiculous run in the map. Well, the mappers should test their maps for these shortcuts, and perhaps even update the map after the release if necessary.
and u think the mapper can find that sc ? or u think he wanted that sc on map ... it just happened :/ and this sc on compound is to lame , the map deserve 2 ways
yes update would be the best solution , but for the moment the map is destroyed.
u can say yes its the rule of sc and kz but its a shame for the work of the mapper, and for the pleasure to pwn the map normal way
06/10/2008 15:21that is good idea also u can do rpz_downfall[boxes] w/o sc :)
shouldn't these massive shortcuts be spotted by the map check team? and flagged it up to the mapper
yeah, they should. don't blame them though.
[blockquote]Why normal way to bhopblock?[/blockquote]
Why not?
I don't think the mapper wanted to create a 14 seconds map. Both bhopblock and compound has scs which destroy the map. I don't think it's wrong to compare them. They both deserve a "normal" way.
But as you say Flibo, which scs shall be allowed?
06/10/2008 17:30Originally posted by Igge[blockquote]Why normal way to bhopblock?[/blockquote]
Why not?
I don't think the mapper wanted to create a 14 seconds map. Both bhopblock and compound has scs which destroy the map. I don't think it's wrong to compare them. They both deserve a "normal" way.
But as you say Flibo, which scs shall be allowed?
Well, in my opinion it would be easiest to just allow all shortcuts. It's a shame though that many maps are ruined. I'm actually pretty glad that congo was split into two parts.
Originally posted by FliboOriginally posted by Igge[blockquote]Why normal way to bhopblock?[/blockquote]
Why not?
I don't think the mapper wanted to create a 14 seconds map. Both bhopblock and compound has scs which destroy the map. I don't think it's wrong to compare them. They both deserve a "normal" way.
But as you say Flibo, which scs shall be allowed?
Well, in my opinion it would be easiest to just allow all shortcuts. It's a shame though that many maps are ruined. I'm actually pretty glad that congo was split into two parts.
Thats the easiest and probably the best choice.
What you guys don't realize is that there is not necessarily a need for a rule. Most things are not meant to be decided 100% by a set of rules. That's why we have trials, and that's why at the end of XJ's rules it says: "Xtreme-Jumps takes the freedom to be able to change these rules without informing its users."
People need to be able to make judgments based on their own common sense. I was not aware of the other big shortcuts on the map, but nevertheless - the crew could decide that risk_compound is a very cool map that deserves two ways because with the big sc jumpers don't even do the first bhop of the map. However, they could say rpz_downfall[boxes] doesn't deserve an extra way because the map is short and uncreative anyway, or that bhopblock doesn't deserve it because the record does contain jumps in the actual map.
Those are just examples, but people need to understand that the crew can't just make decisions based on rules... They have to use their good sense of judgment and common sense all the time.
Originally posted by s1ghWhat you guys don't realize is that there is not necessarily a need for a rule. Most things are not meant to be decided 100% by a set of rules. That's why we have trials, and that's why at the end of XJ's rules it says: "Xtreme-Jumps takes the freedom to be able to change these rules without informing its users."
People need to be able to make judgments based on their own common sense. I was not aware of the other big shortcuts on the map, but nevertheless - the crew could decide that risk_compound is a very cool map that deserves two ways because with the big sc jumpers don't even do the first bhop of the map. However, they could say rpz_downfall[boxes] doesn't deserve an extra way because the map is short and uncreative anyway, or that bhopblock doesn't deserve it because the record does contain jumps in the actual map.
Those are just examples, but people need to understand that the crew can't just make decisions based on rules... They have to use their good sense of judgment and common sense all the time.
very comprehensive post! gj s1gh
and i do wish compound had a [-sc] route... the map kicks ass :p
Originally posted by VoDkA`BoYthat is good idea also u can do rpz_downfall[boxes] w/o sc :)
Ye it should be accepted only by going down on boxes the sc is to lame and faker did it years ago so no one has any change at this kind of maps. :)
come on XJ, we are the community :D
07/10/2008 15:54(edited 08/10/2008 01:20)lol, feels like we're having this discussion over and over again every 6 months.
Trying to sum the last discussion up, since I can't find it anymore to copy'n'paste the answer:
Stuff like that won't happen. We offer 2 demos for maps with different routes, but not for maps with bug sc's. Allowing shortcuts is one of the fundamental rules of the XJ demo rules, if there are big (bug)shortcuts it's the mappers fault and there is nothing we can do about it. It wouldn't make sense to split maps like risk_compound into 2 ways (+sc and -sc) anyway, because in most of these maps there are other big shortcuts... In the case of risk_compound the -sc record would be 30 secs, using another bugsc which skips half of the map.
Some other points: How to define WHICH shortcut is worth of putting up another record with -sc? If there is a record without the shortcut (which would be way more interesting for most of the viewers), where is the point of still hosting the boring/bugged way?
Therefore: For everything that can be considered as alternative routes (planned or not): 2 (or more) WR's. Shortcuts: No way.
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Originally posted by KEVLARRshouldn't these massive shortcuts be spotted by the map check team? and flagged it up to the mapper
The mapcheck team isn't meant for betatesting, we check the overall quality of the maps and if they deserve to be added at our website. The purpose of the maptesting is NOT finding every single bug or shortcut in it. If maps get submitted which contain a lot of bugs, we don't hesitate to tell them to the mapper, but if we get abused as beta testers the mappers and maps can get penalties, too (like delayed releases, or delayed result of the voting).
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Well, the mappers should test their maps for these shortcuts, and perhaps even update the map after the release if necessary.
In the case of risk_compound that would've been the best solution, because there are other big shortcuts, too.
But if you remember... there was a big discussion about changes made to maps AFTER released at that time, therfore we decided that maps can't be changed after the release. We should've made an exception, though, cause it would've been a great map without shortcuts.
Allright faker. I can follow these rules really much and your arguments. Thanks for your good answer about this one. It's just a bit sad for the mappers I guess :/ but you are right, this scs are mistakes by the mapper of course, xj can't change these mistakes. Well, it was worth a try in my eyes,.
+100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stop bringing up old topics