Null HP Bug
17/12/2009 16:11(edited 17/12/2009 16:20)gameplay cant be created by users. users can create conditions. in this situation conditions making gameplay to bug players hud.
as I know kz wrs were always about recording with original counter-strike gameplay and settings on kz maps. and kz maps werent even the first ones wich introduced hp boosting idea.
sure hp boosting is not really what original cs was built for, and there are much more bugs wich appear sometimes under "artificial" conditions.
but I reapeat that I still dont see good reasons in changing original gameplay by an addon (!) in any way (for recording demos)
but the original gameplay was changed by the add-on of the hp booster...
lol hazard i think something is lost in translation here...
the only reason valve never changed the 0hp bug is because its completely irrelevant in the game they made. in cs, 0hp = dead. regardless of how easy it would be to fix, only a small part of the cs community even knows it exists.
so maps where there is no hp, you can't get a 0hp bug because you die, and maps with hp are made so you can fall and still live.
so in 3 cases (normal cs, maps with no health, maps with health) 0hp bug isn't intended. because cs didn't start as a platform for kz, they would have no reason to forsee a problem with 0hp being displayed.
so by adding something to solve this really gives no more of an advantage than adding an hp booster in the first place. wallbugs are caused by mapping flaws (right?) eb/jb are engine flaws that couldn't be changed without reworking the entire game. same with bhopping.
so as many before have said, its not as much a flaw in the game as a flaw in the mod of kz, and by fixing it would balance it out rather than give an advantage, because i doubt the first mappers to use extra hp considered the 0hp bug, and as i alluded to, the 0hp bug would never have been seen before the addition of hp boosters
18/12/2009 14:43(edited 18/12/2009 22:54)hp booster is a part of a map, not a game add-on
maps cant change gameplay, engine behavour stays the same. maps and users just provide conditions for that behavour. addons like metamod (+amxx) can change original gameplay.
TlofT, I dont think there is such thing as "mod of kz" in here. KZ stands for playing kz maps with original counter-strike gameplay
original gameplay except for 10k hp. also, amx is hardly part of normal cs, so i would consider it a mod (a modification of the cs that comes from the install disc) but thats besides the point.
the engine was never made to deal with 0hp because then you should be dead. ONLY by adding hp boosters can you change this. its hardly the developers fault, but more of an oversight by mappers. why not make maps with godmode? if you can't die, whats the difference between 10,000hp and infinite? the game still operates the same.
18/12/2009 23:50(edited 19/12/2009 00:00)engine doesnt forbid to have over 100 hp, why its an exception then?
engine was built to deal with any conditions. maps and players provide conditions, and engine deal with them. also wallbugs are not caused by mapping flaws, evry wall which is not under 45 or 90 degrees to X or Y axis has this glitch. and i dont understand why you blame mappers (or hp boosters) when its hud bug.
this is getting rediculous, so I sum up and leave:
0hp is a hud bug (doesnt matter who invented them and how) and its not kz specific
so I still dont see any reasons to allow any plugins, that change original gameplay, for recording demos.
the engine wasnt made to deal with anything.. its 15 years old. and if walls at a certain angle have wallbugs, its the mappers decision to risk them or not, you don't find them often in the normal cs maps.
mappers who use hp boosters are leaving the map open for 0hp bugs. it might be a hud bug, but the hud was never meant to show 0hp when cs was created and later edited.
over 100hp is a fair point but i assume since the engine doesn't believe you to be dead, it has no problem with it.
lastly, 0hp bug removers are exceptionally different from hp boosters?
19/12/2009 11:14(edited 19/12/2009 19:15)r u serious? engine IS dealing with evrithing, otherwise things woudnt work at all. other problem is how it is dealing...
mappers have a right to built anything they want, because they have oportunity for that, and its engines headache to care about how it would work out (ye mappers can choose use something bugged or not, but they dont cant choose remove buged behavour if they need to use something bugged). also its not just walls at a certain angle having wallbugs, its EVRY wall wich is not 0, 45, 90, 135 or 180 degrees (to X or Y axis).
sure hud wasnt built in intention to show 0hp, but its still having such ability. so "what could be" and "what it was meant for" loosing its sence.
and lastly, hp boosters are still part of the maps and as result - part of kz WRs. 0hp remover plugin is still addon which changes gameplay behavour, and amx was never meant (and actually forbidden) to change gameplay in the WR runs
i tryied to read but i cant take my eyes from spr1n avatar
but spr1n the point is, it doesnt make a difference or give advantage - it just makes it less annoying to lose a perfect run because of a stupid bug....
20/12/2009 12:30yeah thats why its very good to have such plugin on public servers.. but not for recording demos, coz this plugin changes gameplay behavour from original, still. would be nice if valve could fix this themselves, but allowing such bugfix with addon (amxx) just for recording on kz maps would mean that KZ WRs are not recorded with original counter-strike gameplay anymore
22/12/2009 17:57spr1n thats why this plugin is denied in demos :)
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