rotw
add demos to rotws
demo releases isnt for pros?
Originally posted by Playmatedemo releases isnt for pros?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
11/08/2010 19:27make a public poll to choose the rotw.
I don't understand how you give such priviledges to a group of persons who had sure a nice idea, but obviously can't choose the right demos. The point of it was to make an edit over the BEST run, and not a secondary run that was just chosen because the moviemaker had a cool song that fitted to this specific run. In this case, it's just a random demo editing that should only be sent in the forum, like any other demo editing (I don't see why their work would have more importance, moreover if I'm right they are just beginners in moviemaking, they don't really offer a pure quality work).
As faker told me, rotw moviemakers don't consider the rotw solely on the run... well, then that's just bullshit, the run of the week HAS TO BE the run of the week, and facts are here... cellblock was improved by 10 secs, but wasn't rotw, probably because "it sucked too much to edit the same map twice", same for brickvalley, for giantbean_b15 (maybe I skipped some).
So to summarize, if the ROTW isn't made to show the best run, it has nothing to do every week on the frontpage.
Maybe I was harsh, but I know I'm on a safe ground here, because there are a lot of people who think like me.
I don't want any answer from the moviemakers of the rotw, only an answer from an administrator
Originally posted by koukouzmake a public poll to choose the rotw.
I don't understand how you give such priviledges to a group of persons who had sure a nice idea, but obviously can't choose the right demos. The point of it was to make an edit over the BEST run, and not a secondary run that was just chosen because the moviemaker had a cool song that fitted to this specific run. In this case, it's just a random demo editing that should only be sent in the forum, like any other demo editing (I don't see why their work would have more importance, moreover if I'm right they are just beginners in moviemaking, they don't really offer a pure quality work).
As faker told me, rotw moviemakers don't consider the rotw solely on the run... well, then that's just bullshit, the run of the week HAS TO BE the run of the week, and facts are here... cellblock was improved by 10 secs, but wasn't rotw, probably because "it sucked too much to edit the same map twice", same for brickvalley, for giantbean_b15 (maybe I skipped some).
So to summarize, if the ROTW isn't made to show the best run, it has nothing to do every week on the frontpage.
Maybe I was harsh, but I know I'm on a safe ground here, because there are a lot of people who think like me.
I don't want any answer from the moviemakers of the rotw, only an answer from an administrator
+1, don't choose random runs
what faker said, was that ROTW is made to promote kreedz. People who've never heard of kreedz, don't care if it's the best run and it's über boring to watch. They want to watch something enjoyable, which I totally support.
Therefore I think they should keep the system the way it is.
11/08/2010 21:44(edited 11/08/2010 21:48)Originally posted by Punk^ [HORSE]
what faker said, was that ROTW is made to promote kreedz. People who've never heard of kreedz, don't care if it's the best run and it's über boring to watch. They want to watch something enjoyable, which I totally support.
Therefore I think they should keep the system the way it is.
I understood that... but we are in a kreedz community aren't we? Yes we are, it was a rhetorical question. Therefore, any member here knows what KZ is, we don't need any KZ promotion on THIS website. It might be cool to see such videos on a shooting community, but here, what we currently see are just random runs editing. What you see in the forums are exactly the same, so why should it get importance for doing the same thing? Some edits you see on the forum are better edited( and except this editing factor, I don't see what can be improved, and it's not improved at all obviously). If you want to show the movie of the week, and not the RUN of the week, then... idk, maybe show the best edit of the week, and give any moviemaker the chance to be there.
When I first heard about this ROTW concept, I thought it was to show here the best run made, but actually ROTW is just a fake new concept... It has been done since years, and never got any further attention from XJ (it was even in a hidden topic in the movies section until a week or two), so if it's to show the exact same thing than any other moviemaker, it's just UNFAIR towards them, I think the word is not overrated.
A last thing... This rotw thing should be approved by the whole community, therefore it should be decided through weekly polls (to choose the run, same as to choose the best movie made, with any moviemaker (from moviemaking.fr or not))
From what I got from you, you think that the ROTW is ONLY for the members of XJ to watch. I'm pretty sure that the reason XJ is having moviemaking.fr doing them, is because they'll also publish them on their site and on their youtube channel, which more than just people who play kreedz watch. Therefore it promotes kreedz. And honestly, if you hate watching them so much, no one is forcing you. As far as I can tell, most people in this community is satisfied with the way that the ROTW is done.
Oh and also, as you said yourself, it's called RUN of the week. It dosen't say best anywhere. So it could both be the best run OR the most enjoyable one.
Say that sandblock2 is chosen as the next ROTW. Do you think anyone would spend 11 minutes watching a video of some guy jumping on bricks, if they have no idea why he's doing it. Only kreedz people would. That gets more people to dislike kreedz, rather than attracting them and gets them to play kreedz.
I said it the first time and I will say it again, faker (who probably knows the most about this) said that these videoes are made to promote kreedz, not to show the most perfect and über best run with a new shortcut or whatever.
And I'm pretty confident that this is a great way to do it.
Another option would be you making your own BROTW and putting them in the forums, then all the drama would be over.
11/08/2010 22:16Originally posted by Punk^ [HORSE]
From what I got from you, you think that the ROTW is ONLY for the members of XJ to watch. I'm pretty sure that the reason XJ is having moviemaking.fr doing them, is because they'll also publish them on their site and on their youtube channel, which more than just people who play kreedz watch. Therefore it promotes kreedz. And honestly, if you hate watching them so much, no one is forcing you. As far as I can tell, most people in this community is satisfied with the way that the ROTW is done.
Oh and also, as you said yourself, it's called RUN of the week. It dosen't say best anywhere. So it could both be the best run OR the most enjoyable one.
Say that sandblock2 is chosen as the next ROTW. Do you think anyone would spend 11 minutes watching a video of some guy jumping on bricks, if they have no idea why he's doing it. Only kreedz people would. That gets more people to dislike kreedz, rather than attracting them and gets them to play kreedz.
I said it the first time and I will say it again, faker (who probably knows the most about this) said that these videoes are made to promote kreedz, not to show the most perfect and über best run with a new shortcut or whatever.
And I'm pretty confident that this is a great way to do it.
Another option would be you making your own BROTW and putting them in the forums, then all the drama would be over.
read my previous comment again please... All I said before can be an answer to this... please try to read and understand what I said and don't post useless things, it really looks like you didn't understand a word of what I said. I won't debate with you really, don't take it as an act of hate but seriously, your post made me understand that you didn't get my point at all... and your "make your own BROTW" thing was pretty childish. If you want to talk, at least give some good ideas and don't drop such silly things without any interest for the debate.
Don't answer this, I won't reply back
Koukouz throughout your post all you said was that you were dissapointed that the ROTW isn't about the best run, but just a run which is enjoyable.
As far as I know ROTW was started only with the intention of promoting kz, which includes :
1. Making kz popular in websites like owntv, youtube so that clanners get interested in kreedz
2. Promoting new movie-makers and their work
But with these main objectives, some other sub-objectives are implied like :
1. ROTW is a sort of an award for the best run of the week
2. It is also made for those kz enthusiasts who are not able to watch every single demo of the weekly release [due to various reasons like PC brkdown, corrupt CS, on travel, etc]
So, personally speaking, I dont quite support random runs to be eligible for the ROTW movie. I'd just like to ans some minor things from Punk^'s posts, namely :
1. ROTW means Run Of The Week. If it doesn't show the best run of the week, then I think it should be renamed to MOTW i.e Movie Of The Week.
2. No one has the patience to watch a 11 min WR movie...very true, but for clanners only. If the ROTW is targetted towards clanners it should be post in the respected forums threads and at the same time promoted in the sites like youtube, owntv etc. It shouldn't be on the newspost. This is cuz every single kz enthusiast, no matter how long the clip is, would watch it be it kz_world or be it rpz_downfall[boxes]
Anyways, having made these points, I would also like to say something else. ROTW is mainly decided by the admins and admins are human beings and its natural that they wouldn't be absolutely un-biased. Happens with everyone. And creating a poll every week for the sake of choosing ROTW adds an extra amount of work for the already busy admins, who have way more important works to do. So, instead of shouting over whether or not a particular run deserves to be in ROTW, we should be thinking of some alternate solution to the problem [am saying it a problem cuz it seems like a controversy at least in this particular thread].
Peace !!!
11/08/2010 22:58(edited 11/08/2010 23:01)As I said, I know it's to "promote" KZ, have I ever said it wasn't? What I say is that it must be promoted on communities that are not kz related, if you post this here, it's just absolutely useless cause every single member of this website knows what KZ is (I really feel like I'm repeating myself but anyway...)
A3T!U$, you say admins have more important things to do... that's not very constructive. If you support a weekly event, you should at least spend a bit of time on it and take care of what's going on with it. Basically what you have to do to create a poll is to write a question "What's the best run in your opinion", and give some runs names... members will do the rest, I don't see what's the very tiring and demanding job here. You told it yourself, you don't want to see random runs, me neither... a poll is the most appropriate option.
And yes punk, I'm disappointed to see that something that doesn't deserve an extra help from the admins is on the frontpage when very good videos are posted every day in the forum and are just there to stay in the shadows...
Wait, I didn't say it was absolutely bad, what I say is that current ROTW have nothing additional/better than the other videos posted and present absolutely nothing new.
Please read my previous posts again, I think I was very clear and made sense, I don't see what point was wrong
so basically you are saying is that heL's run wasn't the best one? or that admins should have picked your demo as the best one?
there are no specific points that define the BEST demo in a release. surely you can say something like style, speed, consistency, transitions, combos, time, etc... but some of these conditions can be subjective...
the demo is chosen by admins at their discretion (in this case by ndR, who we all know has enough background to identify an uber demo in a release).
imo the demos chosen so far for the ROTW have been a great choice. making a poll every week is something unnecessary and unsuccessful...why? first of all you have to define every rule of the poll (what people have to vote, what for, how much time they have to vote, etc... remember that a moviemaker has to also make the MOVIE... which doesnt take 5 minutes, but can take even a day...), and also... who reads rules on this website? if rules would be read, then i guess we wouldn't have had a need for the warning/ban system...
LATER EDIT:
moviemaking.fr has a partnership with XJ with this ROTW concept. therefor "we" provide demos, they provide movies.
it's not about giving a chance to all the moviemakers out there... all of them can make their own ROTW's...
and what punk said about promoting kz is absolutely correct... these movies are posted on moviemaking.fr's website and youtube channel as well as XJ's own3d.tv channel... so there's enough promotion going on if you ask me :)
12/08/2010 00:17Originally posted by boom.dllso basically you are saying is that heL's run wasn't the best one? or that admins should have picked your demo as the best one?
Don't get me wrong, I say that the general choice is bad. On 16 ROTWs, only sn_minivolcano, kt_aztecclimb and rd_jump_house were worth watching.
Originally posted by boom.dllthe demo is chosen by admins at their discretion (in this case by ndR, who we all know has enough background to identify an uber demo in a release).
This is the suggestions forum, AND I suggested to make polls to choose it, because you say it yourself... a best demo changes from person to person, therefore admins choices are not representative at all, that's why a poll is the best, because at least majority would always be right.
Originally posted by boom.dllmaking a poll every week is something unnecessary and unsuccessful...why? first of all you have to define every rule of the poll (what people have to vote, what for, how much time they have to vote, etc... remember that a moviemaker has to also make the MOVIE... which doesnt take 5 minutes, but can take even a day...)
Sorry but I think you're wrong, polls are always popular and are never (or very rarely) the home of flamewars. I think polls are one of the only things here that are totally respected by all the members.
Originally posted by boom.dlland also... who reads rules on this website? if rules would be read, then i guess we wouldn't have had a need for the warning/ban system...
That's a very pessimistic view from an admin. If you know that rules aren't read, you should maybe make something to make it more visible, impossible to circumvent (Yes, now I'm just being annoying, I know you're right anyway, nobody has the patience to read all the rules :D)
Originally posted by boom.dllmoviemaking.fr has a partnership with XJ with this ROTW concept. therefor "we" provide demos, they provide movies.
it's not about giving a chance to all the moviemakers out there... all of them can make their own ROTW's...
and what punk said about promoting kz is absolutely correct... these movies are posted on moviemaking.fr's website and youtube channel as well as XJ's own3d.tv channel... so there's enough promotion going on if you ask me :)
Please, I explained myself about it three times already on this same thread, read my previous posts again :(
Originally posted by koukouzOriginally posted by boom.dllso basically you are saying is that heL's run wasn't the best one? or that admins should have picked your demo as the best one?
Don't get me wrong, I say that the general choice is bad. On 16 ROTWs, only sn_minivolcano, kt_aztecclimb and rd_jump_house were worth watching.
according to your "standards"...
Originally posted by koukouzOriginally posted by boom.dllthe demo is chosen by admins at their discretion (in this case by ndR, who we all know has enough background to identify an uber demo in a release).
This is the suggestions forum, AND I suggested to make polls to choose it, because you say it yourself... a best demo changes from person to person, therefore admins choices are not representative at all, that's why a poll is the best, because at least majority would always be right.
i wouldn't really put my finger on the majority always being right...
also... i find it more secure for one person to chose a demo for the ROTW, then 125 choosing one demo, 48 choosing another demo, 3 choosing another demo and 74 others choosing another demo for the ROTW. basically, if the 125 win, the other ones (which if you add them are again 125) would not agree. anyway... this poll is as subjective as me choosing a demo, or for that matter you...
Originally posted by koukouzOriginally posted by boom.dllmaking a poll every week is something unnecessary and unsuccessful...why? first of all you have to define every rule of the poll (what people have to vote, what for, how much time they have to vote, etc... remember that a moviemaker has to also make the MOVIE... which doesnt take 5 minutes, but can take even a day...)
Sorry but I think you're wrong, polls are always popular and are never (or very rarely) the home of flamewars. I think polls are one of the only things here that are totally respected by all the members.
very rarely, but still...
and from what i've read through the ROTW news, people liked the runs, they commented more about the edit than the runs themselves...
Originally posted by koukouzOriginally posted by boom.dlland also... who reads rules on this website? if rules would be read, then i guess we wouldn't have had a need for the warning/ban system...
That's a very pessimistic view from an admin. If you know that rules aren't read, you should maybe make something to make it more visible, impossible to circumvent (Yes, now I'm just being annoying, I know you're right anyway, nobody has the patience to read all the rules :D)
thats why the warning/ban system got implemented :D
Originally posted by koukouzOriginally posted by boom.dllmoviemaking.fr has a partnership with XJ with this ROTW concept. therefor "we" provide demos, they provide movies.
it's not about giving a chance to all the moviemakers out there... all of them can make their own ROTW's...
and what punk said about promoting kz is absolutely correct... these movies are posted on moviemaking.fr's website and youtube channel as well as XJ's own3d.tv channel... so there's enough promotion going on if you ask me :)
Please, I explained myself about it three times already on this same thread, read my previous posts again :(
i did read it, but it's your fault for being one-sided and not trying to see another point of view. :D
as an addition to everything i wrote so far... what was this thread about in the beginning? from what i've seen, the guy that posted this thread had one post in it that didn't make sense, and another one that can't be taken into consideration...
all this talk about who chooses demos and why is probably another rant against admins and their work... at least thats how this thread started anyways...
not gonna quote stuff again... cuz it's painfull to read xD
here's my suggestion to what you wrote. instead of a poll, people should write the demo for the ROTW in the comments of the DEMO RELEASE NEWS. how about that? (if no people want to count the "votes", i will).
12/08/2010 01:05Originally posted by boom.dlli wouldn't really put my finger on the majority always being right...
also... i find it more secure for one person to chose a demo for the ROTW, then 125 choosing one demo, 48 choosing another demo, 3 choosing another demo and 74 others choosing another demo for the ROTW. basically, if the 125 win, the other ones (which if you add them are again 125) would not agree. anyway... this poll is as subjective as me choosing a demo, or for that matter you...
That made no sense... the fact that only one admin decides the ROTW doesn't mean that everybody suddenly agrees with the demo chosen lol. The statistics would be exactly the same than the numbers you gave, the result is that it would just be the run the majority prefers... Of course majority is always right in such cases, I don't see how you can say such things, it's not even debatable. If 75% think X demo is better, 25% think Y demo is better... then obviously you would get more people happy with X demo.
I maintain, a poll is the one and best solution to make it fair. If people are not happy now, it's totally understandable, because there is no proof the demo chosen by ndR only (wtf? only one person to decide this?) is what majority thinks, whereas if majority chooses a demo, nobody will have something to complain about.
Originally posted by boom.dlli did read it, but it's your fault for being one-sided and not trying to see another point of view. :D
OK, let me use other words to explain myself.
Let's take it from the start... 1) Editing WR runs has been made for years as you know. They come with the ROTW thing, which is exactly the same concept. Why do you suddenly give newsposts for it? Were old edited demos less worth watching?
2) You're saying it's to promote KZ... omg I don't even find the words because it's so damn obvious in my eyes... look, how the fuck in hell would someone who doesn't know about KZ ever see a ROTW on THIS website? Never, I guess you agree with me. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I encourage them to drop their vids on SHOOTING communities, so SHOOTERS learn about KZ. But wtf... what's the point to make a newspost here when everybody knows what kz is? there is nothing legitible to make a newspost about it lol it's just the same as other runs edits...
3) If as faker told me, the point is not to show the very best run of the week, but it's also based on the map, what we can edit with it, etc... then the name is bad (1st) and it has nothing MORE interesting than other videos for members (2nd), so its place is just on the forum.
4) As far as I know, they are moviemaking beginners, so it's not like they will offer a monster edit that would surpass any other run edit.
5) You say it's a partnership... you give the demos they give the movies... LOL.
ANY MEMBER can take demos from XJ, I don't see in what it makes it a partnership. Then any guy who edits a demo from here has a partnership with XJ
Please try to understand me, can't be clearer.
Originally posted by boom.dllas an addition to everything i wrote so far... what was this thread about in the beginning? from what i've seen, the guy that posted this thread had one post in it that didn't make sense, and another one that can't be taken into consideration...
all this talk about who chooses demos and why is probably another rant against admins and their work... at least thats how this thread started anyways...
well the name of the thread was rotw... so I guessed it was a general discussion about it.
12/08/2010 04:05(edited 12/08/2010 04:14)First of all, let my quote my chatbox post I posted yesterday:
Sorry, I'm not getting the logic behind this. Look: The demo was picked amongst all the other demos from the upcoming release by ndR (who had access to all of them). Actually the upcoming release should be posted by now, but I assume ndR had some problems so he had to go and so the release will be delayed; therefore I figured I should post at least that one demo that was used in the movie).
Also it's still RUN of the week, and not the (best) RECORD of the week, it's a - you can say random - run that is posted in a weekly series which is meant to promote kz over own3d/youtube, not depict the most amazing run of the week.
We thought about possible alternative, such as showing the most amazing run and taking other moviemakers in for now, but quite a few people seem to like the ROTW as it is, also it shows maybe not the _BEST_ run, but at least one of the better demos out of the particular releases, so it's a good compromise. Picking the "really best run" might cause some other problems, if the demos are longer most people probably won't bother to watch the whole movie at all.... just a little example.
I just checked all previous ROTW's again and I can't see any random/bad run at all to be honest, all of them were pretty sick/good... maybe not the best (if it's even possible to tell which one is exactly the best, everyone is going to have a different idea about which demo is the best and what makes it the best... improvement? style? using an extrem shortcut? transistion + strafes?)
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make a public poll to choose the rotw.
No offense but that is a pretty bad and unrealistic idea. For one we can't have an extra poll every week just to determine which demo should be picked for the next ROTW; and then again this idea would require that every voter knows ALL of the demos already... and imagine if that is the case, people would barely watch the ROTW anymore at all. Also there would be a lot of random votes where people just go and vote for their favorite climber or for a map they like (or time they think sounds amazing at first glance).
As faker told me, rotw moviemakers don't consider the rotw solely on the run... well, then that's just bullshit, the run of the week HAS TO BE the run of the week, and facts are here... cellblock was improved by 10 secs, but wasn't rotw, probably because "it sucked too much to edit the same map twice", same for brickvalley, for giantbean_b15 (maybe I skipped some).
Even though the project would be RECORD (aka best run) of the week I still doubt that it would be a good idea to show the same maps over and over again, as you can't solely think about the run itself, it's a movie and if it's a movie it's about other aspects such as entertainment as well. Otherwise we could just post the demo file in a sperated news and call it the run of the week, yeah, then it would make sense to put cellblock or other maps 2 times in a row (or even 3 times if they still got improved) and would cause absolutely no problems at all.
As I said, I know it's to "promote" KZ, have I ever said it wasn't? What I say is that it must be promoted on communities that are not kz related, if you post this here, it's just absolutely useless cause every single member of this website knows what KZ is
That's exactly what we do. It's posted on their website, their youtube channel, which has a lot of active users, and our own3d.tv channel... and it's also posted as newspost at XJ, as a "sideproduct" you can say. Obviously you got a point that such movies are not extraordinary enough to be posted on a weekly basis if there was no partnership/series, but there is.
Also it's pretty harsh to say it's "useless" to post the movies; a lot of members seem to be actually enjoying the ROTWs.
Sorry but I think you're wrong, polls are always popular and are never (or very rarely) the home of flamewars. I think polls are one of the only things here that are totally respected by all the members.
I think they are visible enough, those who WANT to read it, do it... and those who don't care... don't. How often did you actually read the "Terms of agreement" when installing a new software or game, even though you have to confirm that you did by checking that little checkbox? ;)
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1. ROTW means Run Of The Week. If it doesn't show the best run of the week, then I think it should be renamed to MOTW i.e Movie Of The Week.
I doubt the name is incorrect or should be changed to be honest, "run" doesn't imply "(best) record" automatically. It might be Run of the week, but it's still a good name for "a selected run to represent KZ", that is posted weekly, isn't it?
When naming it "Movie of the week" I'm pretty positive people will ask "why can't we send trickjump movies as well?" as the word "movie" doesn't exactly say it has to be a single run.
12/08/2010 09:59lol faker answered u all :o
i'm taking kkz's side. he is totally right,imo. xj is the most advanced kz community,so who needs to be teased with more "eyecatching" video,instead of some rly signifficant improvement,unseen combo or a new sc? i don't. and i'm pretty sure that the majority within xj members would be a lot better way to choose the actual "run of the week",instead one person's opinion about it.
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