Longjumping loosing its entity for good
Huh, since I've got some time I think it's time all of us should expose their opinion towards "LJ issue". In last times everything went upside down for Longjumping history. It all started when cs classic players discovered that by pressing space or scroll(wheel) they could "JUMP". A pretty unclear meaning for many from XJ ( the official kreedz community , where it all started, after kz-monkeys ofc :D) .
Jumping in cs seemed to be fun for cs players. Every oldschooler remembers the "kz_longjumps" map, which was played by everyone. Supa was the first to jump the 240 block, which was the ooooold longjump record. Time passed and we had the wonderful 252 253 254 by T3dBundy, then the Bibo 255 and the 256 lj oTcHeTo (still the god of ljing ). Now we have 257 lj FreestyleR. But this is not all. Starting from beggining. People liked jumping , they discovered the LONGJUMP but with the time they discovered as well that they could Bunny Hop by syncing 2 scroll rotations. People first liked more longjump and with time it became same thing : lj or climbing. Kreedz started making maps, people were playing for fun. 240 block world records tralala and here we are. 2011
I think 2011 is a too late year to start with. Let's say 2008-2009 , the beggining of falling of longjump liking. People from Xj started shorting their tops (from 50 to 20 , from 20 to 10, from 10 to 5). It seemed good for climb geeks, because they thought lj is non-sense. But all those who think lj is non-sense, are limit-minded. Why? Because they dont take into consideration the fact that KREEDZ IS JUMPING. JUMPING IS LJ/CJ/BHOP/CLIMB. AND LJ STARTED ALL THE SHIT. So far, now xj staff says that it's difficult to check lj demos,ehm, sorry(I didnt mention everything detailed). IT IS DIFFICULT AND HARD WORK to check 10 longjumps per 187-8 days. Now in 2011, lj is considered geeking/wasting time, but why tf people dont say same about recording? Isn't this same thing? Even more! Lj is a "cheatable thing and it needs hard work to check". Question : "IF LJ IS A CHEATABLE, WHY WHOULDN'T BHOP BE CHEATABLE????" Answer : Beec0z. Now they are opinions that lj should EVEN BE DELETED from XJ, the official kreedz jumping community. What do you say about this matter? Will lj come back to it's importance? Will people apreciate again the hard work of ljers?
P.S. I just posted my opinions since chatbox went mad with lj issue :)
26/05/2011 18:55(edited 26/05/2011 18:55)LJs play no role in the concept of Kreedzing.
The concept developed by Kreedz is that of climbing, and he did it because strafes exist, and that's all. It was discovered in early versions of Counter-Strike that bhopping didn't have the slow down after consecutive jumps that they do today, which was removed at some point by Valve, through an update.
Despite LJs being the favorite matter of some people on KZ, the mod is simply developed after strafing, and in the past, 240 was considered what we know today as a "god-like" jump, since the prestrafe had not yet came to knowledge.
This must be taken into consideration before you start talking about LJs. LJs did not come first, strafing did. The fact that you can turn mid-air and gain speed by that is the whole concept of KZ. If bhop did not exist, we would still have (although less fun) climbing maps.
when you climb . you don't longjump?? you strafe , yea? strafing doenst mean longjumping at all :D. What is longjumping in your vision? :D jumping at blocks?on kz_lj2?? )) strafing means pressing a d while syncing it with mouse movement WHILE LONGJUMPING . No offence but strafing is a part of ljing :)
Well , i think the jumping starts from strafe and from strafe we make LJ and from LJ other shit. Anyways in my option LJ is a part of kreedz maybe tiny maybe giant. For me its a normal part of kz when u using LJ for doing hard maps like sandblock2.
About deleting. I mean when XJ delete Lj tops its cant make lj non-sense if they make ofc. XJ-LJ community. Personaly I do not care about it.
26/05/2011 19:08It seems you lack some of the basic knowledge regarding KZ.
There is "jumping" and there is "longjumping". Please understand that Longjumping is a technic that seeks distance. Remember that, in Kreedz, we have jumps that do not seek distance, and are purely technical, like the strafe jumps (like those in ae_strafers_heaven or cg_strafejumpZ, for instance).
Everything in KZ derives from two facts, nowadays: We can bhop and we can strafe. Everything else is then derived from these two points.
Originally posted by Shady`'lj geeks' they are hated by 'climb geeks'
'climb geeks' they are 'climb geeks'
normal guys - they love all 'parts' of kreedz
26/05/2011 19:29(edited 26/05/2011 19:30)Longjumping will eventually hit a somewhat maximum lenght. The jumpers will no longer compete about jumping a whole unit, but decimals such as:
freestyleR - 258.112 units
oTcHeTo - 258.110 units
heat - 258.105 units
This what it will look like when longjumping is pushed to the max. Maybe not those jumpers, but you get what I mean. The admins might even add more decimals. If 258.150 is maximum for longjumping (example), the units might be 258.15000.
Well i aways tough of the Lonjumping as part of kreedz and to be honst eaven if the people say "Lj is a waste of time" we see day by day that the new stuff like UBER trick Jumps new Shortcuts all most 90% of them are just Distance Jumps ( long jumps ) people consider some one a uber trick jumper when hes able to do a good trick and 90% of these tricks that make you go wild are DISTANCE JUMPS witch in fact are long jumps bun not on the oficial maps ....I realy cant uderstand how can XJ check just few demos of longjumping but can put 3-4 movies with 20-30 jumps on the wall and claiming they are Clean when in fact they are longjumps .... if u can check 20-30 demoes in 1 week and 70% of them are long jumps and say they are clean how can u claim Checking Lj demos is hard >_< and to be honest you can have a WR without beeing able to do 257 longjump but u cant have a Lj rec without beeing able to do 257 ;) so in my eyes the Longjumps part of kreedz is the most hard and the most extreme..
Quick opinion;
climb records (including maps with needed longjump skills) = important
longjumping in general = important, base of kreedzing like you know
listing world's best longjumpers in this site, while techincal things go forward and there are so much cheaters = not important
Like I said on chatbox, I don't have nothing against longjumping. Seems just that this listing is senseless, that's why I wouldn't like to see LJ Records -area in this site.
And yes, it might be bigger part of kreedz for somebody else, but this is my opinion. Still longjumping would continue, and even I would go kz_longjumps2 or any map and try my skills. Amount of cheaters here (remember all they want is the pride of seeing own name in the list) is ridiciolus. It's very sad that members of this community destroy this part of kreedz :-/
26/05/2011 19:40[blockquote]There is "jumping" and there is "longjumping". Please understand that Longjumping is a technic that seeks distance[/blockquote]
pretty much all jumps seek distance from one block to the other.
[blockquote]
Remember that, in Kreedz, we have jumps that do not seek distance, and are purely technical, like the strafe jumps (like those in ae_strafers_heaven or cg_strafejumpZ[/blockquote]
why dont those jumps seek distance? i dont understand.. what do you mean by technical? why can't i say longjumps are purely technical?
[blockquote]
Everything in KZ derives from two facts, nowadays: We can bhop and we can strafe. Everything else is then derived from these two points.[/blockquote]
so if we can strafe, why can't we lj?
i didnt understand this post at all. can you explain to me logically why lj isnt a part of kz?
Originally posted by hii[blockquote]There is "jumping" and there is "longjumping". Please understand that Longjumping is a technic that seeks distance[/blockquote]
pretty much all jumps seek distance from one block to the other.
[blockquote]
Remember that, in Kreedz, we have jumps that do not seek distance, and are purely technical, like the strafe jumps (like those in ae_strafers_heaven or cg_strafejumpZ[/blockquote]
why dont those jumps seek distance? i dont understand.. what do you mean by technical? why can't i say longjumps are purely technical?
[blockquote]
Everything in KZ derives from two facts, nowadays: We can bhop and we can strafe. Everything else is then derived from these two points.[/blockquote]
so if we can strafe, why can't we lj?
i didnt understand this post at all. can you explain to me logically why lj isnt a part of kz?
With longjumping, I think he is chasing the listing of top5 longjumper in this community. Nothing to do with longjumping, harshly said this "virtual pe***" growing (meaning amount cheaters) have just gone for too long..
It`s a long discussion that will lead nowhere..
I,myself,am a noob at longjumping,and I find it pointless since I can jump the same distance using another techniques such as CJ/DCJ ,even WJ.
KZ and XJ are 2 different things.
LJ will always be part of KZ,but I dont think it should be part of XJ.
Strafing is the basic of XJ and KZ,I dont see what strafing has to do with the LJing,yes,you strafe when you lj,but you strafe when you do everything..
All in All
Should LJ-ing be part of XJ?- No.
Should we create webpage for ljing - Yes,and move all records that include jumping a record distance using a specific technique.
I would be glad if I could go back in time and kill that guy who started cheating in CS and couldn't spread the cheating plague all over the world.
As for the LJ, it's still important part of Kreedz and it's always cool to see a new LJ/CJ/other WR appearing, but with the quickly growing number of cheaters out there it's too hard to keep the grip of them all- new cheating methods come up old being used more and more actively. But I also see no point of removing the top COMPLETELY, because the recs which we can see in the top are pretty hard to beat. Even with cheats [like MSL or smth] it takes time to beat the rec. I'm not talking about Slowmo ar KZH because they are too obvious that they do not require in-depth checking.
And it's those guys problems who spend days geeking a LJ with their goddamn cheat and in the end get banned.
I also found it weird that this HUGE discussion started. First, it was niken with his MSL'ed 257 LJ, okay okay, a lil' argument between some dudes about whether call MSL a cheat or not, but then came this the HISTORY OF LJ and THE IMPORTANCE OF LJ IN KREEDZ stuff, and I was like "Damn! This is gona be huge!"
26/05/2011 20:48You guys got the point wrong. Me and StarWars*1 are not discussing whether LJ should be allowed or not, we are simply discussing the origins of Kreedz for now.
Just delete hj,cj,dcj, and keep only bhop with longjump only the one. I mean top1. I cant imagine xtreme-jumps without ljtop atleast top1.
Originally posted by VeeYou guys got the point wrong. Me and StarWars*1 are not discussing whether LJ should be allowed or not, we are simply discussing the origins of Kreedz for now.
Oh, the origins. Could you, please, explain the reason for this briefly?
Originally posted by MJKWell i aways tough of the Lonjumping as part of kreedz and to be honst eaven if the people say "Lj is a waste of time" we see day by day that the new stuff like UBER trick Jumps new Shortcuts all most 90% of them are just Distance Jumps ( long jumps ) people consider some one a uber trick jumper when hes able to do a good trick and 90% of these tricks that make you go wild are DISTANCE JUMPS witch in fact are long jumps bun not on the oficial maps ....I realy cant uderstand how can XJ check just few demos of longjumping but can put 3-4 movies with 20-30 jumps on the wall and claiming they are Clean when in fact they are longjumps .... if u can check 20-30 demoes in 1 week and 70% of them are long jumps and say they are clean how can u claim Checking Lj demos is hard >_< and to be honest you can have a WR without beeing able to do 257 longjump but u cant have a Lj rec without beeing able to do 257 ;) so in my eyes the Longjumps part of kreedz is the most hard and the most extreme..
you posted the smartest comment in this topic
In reality , Vee, I think you haven't started playing cs from 6 years old, as I did and you dont even know what was cs those times(cs 1.0 then 1.5 then 1.6). Wanna hear little history that will make your previous post just non-sense? no offence. It was like in 2002 I think when ppl started understanting what is this lj. You started playing cs when? you see strafing and bhoping as things that other derived from? Why? Theory? :D . Stick to the topic. It was like in 2001-2002 I think when ppl started understanding that they can jump on each other and discover new positions. Then it came out that there were Lonjumps that were possible even without jumping on each other. Longjump on blocks and LONGJUMP are 2 different things. You can longjump without knowing the distance(from a lower to a higher block, like in climb maps). Back to what I said. In 2002 they understood this new technique in cs. They started longjumping and like in 2003(If I remember well) they discovered what's bunny hop(2 mates). I started playing cs from it's begginings and kz as well ( in kz I wasnt active , but I know 100% how it all started). Btw it wasnt created by kreedz :) this technique is well known from cs 1.5 :) . I love both ljing and climbing and I till now everyone was saying that "you may jump 256 lj but not make a wr". I am sure there will be times (pretty soon) when longjumpers will rule other kz because of uberstrafes. There will be times when you'll need very high longjump skills for recording, when all nowadays bhoppers climbers will seem very nubs. You'll se that. I mean it's a matter of time. Lj is the most important part of kz, be sure of that, you can argue with me 1 year, I'll demonstrate you that lj is the basic part in kz. No lj - no climb. It's only because of lj that you can make well-synced strafes. Try bringing a person who hasn't ever played cs and get him straight to maps. You know what? You all jumped lj in your kz "career". Everyone , no exceptions. That's a fact. It all started from longjumping. You should really ask some oldoldoldschool guys that played from cs begginings. Ask soulfather :) He may explain you some things(if he played those times :) ). The idea is that XJ , which is a kreedz community, which involves every technique, everything associated with kz (movies/maps/records/ljs/tricks) doesnt pay attention to Lj. Remember times when oTcHeTo jumped 256 lj block. How were those times? Pretty nice. When lj list had 50 PLAYERS. 50!(may be too much). I think Xj should go back to top 15. Here is the argument : Some players are really talented at climbing , others at bhop, others at trickjumping, others at longjumping and it should be equality to everyone. If one is talented at lj and he tries to be in top , you should give him a chance. If he has that 256 block after 1 year of geeking and other has 25 wr's in one year, isn't it same hard work, doesnt the ljer deserve a place in top? May be he tried recording, but his scroll doesnt work , he doesnt have money for new mouse, he has only lj option, but he may be not talented at recording, but be a wonderful longjumper, why not giving a chance?. We all well know that verifying 10 lj demos per years isn't much work. Common, XJ :D
P.S. : Lj is the most hard part of kz, thats why all climb geeks hate lj geeks and the climb geeks hate lj geeks because they cant jump a good lj , and lj geeks hate climb geeks because they cant climb. They are equal :D I'm neutral :) Vee, thanks for keeping this thread alive :D It's really interesting talking to you :)
26/05/2011 21:26I'm sorry, I believe you should review your concepts.
You are confusing the concept of strafing with longjumping. Longjumping involves a prestrafe and strafes.
Despite what terms may be used, a longjump is the combination of a prestrafe and one or more strafes. Refer to our KZ Tutorial if you need.
It is partly arrogant of you to assume I don't know CS and I don't know how Kreedz started, but I will reference you once again. I did not say Kreedz invented strafing, but he invented the concept of climbing maps, he made maps for the sole purpose of KZ. It is more than obvious that other players came before him in strafing, but he was the one putting this concept in maps, which is why we carry his name now.
Also, I believe it is the wrong angle you are using. Some people spend their whole KZ time trying WRs and never even get one, but you have 5 chances to get a LJ WR.
I have noticed you are having trouble with the names: please remember strafing is not longjumping! Longjump is the name of a technique, just like countjumping.
It can be simply put that when you see a thin pillar on a map, you ask "what's the distance in this jump?" but when you see a clearly marked LJ block you say "how long is this LJ?".
Don't forget that the concepts are very clear to be understood on our Kreedz Tutorial, therefore you should take a moment and look into it. Also, I hardly, very hardly, believe that LJ will take the place maps have now, as they are completely different things. Technique will always be the favorite for climbers, not distance.
Dont wanna bother you but it started from jumping a block a jump a however you called it. Lj = prestrafe + strafes from a block to block (lets say on a straight place). Now , lj started from de_ maps , where players found that there is possible to jump from a box to box. Get it ? :) I'm no arrogant, but I think you cant teach me what I saw with my own eyes :D I mean the tutorials were made for novices, dont look at my registration number, I could have been one of firsts if I knew there was "a Kreedz, a Xtreme-jumps". I myself started bhopping in 1.5 :D I really know what I'm speaking and when I say that it started from longjumping , I mean not the ones you think about, or is my concept of ljing not the same of yours? I think you are calling "jumps on maps" what I call lj :) Got it , still wierd to me , being a very oldschool player and hearing in iNet always "go lj go lj" from it's begginings :D But may be you are right, I'm a permissive person :) Ye, and dont be rude "Refer to our KZ Tutorial if you need" "I have noticed you are having trouble with the names". Who are you to teach me? :D no, really. Im playing earlier than you and it's pretty funny to see that you are teaching me things that I saw with my eyes be4 you had discovered what's cs :D Peace and keep the thread alive, guys more active, answer to this question : How do you look at the idea of returning the top 10 at least in lj ?
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