Map releases

well.. one thing is for sure. if i created a map like kz_j2s_summercliff (which is very popular as well as stupidly easy to build - sorry solid, i don't mean it bad) today, i'd be send to cosy for building a boring map with no chance for approval. that's how it is.

Hey guys,

First of all thanks for trying to make things better.

Secondly, I don't want to throw off your suggestion, but unfortunately as time and many attempts at this have shown us, involving the community in any map procedures, checking, voting, etc, it's a failure, due to the fact that no one is active there. There will be some good threads with some feedbacks (but not enough) and there will be threads with no feedback at all. We tried this a couple of times and it faild all the time.

I know map releases have been really rare, but that will change. Ive been handling this website for not so long and we are working on fixing all the problems, which btw are many.

The community just needs more maps and frequent releases. And we will give that!

Good points there Soul.

@Shock Basicly, yes. Any map should be in the mapcycle, whatever quality. However, XJ should not be forced to host all these maps, "just" the records. Thats basicly the difference.

@Ovidiu First of all, thanks for even considering such things man. I know its frustrating to administrate a site when there is so much crits and drama.

I know the problem about the activity in mapchecking, i have been there myself back in, i guess 2009ish. What im saying is, let the ppl release there maps whatever the quality is. And you decide for yourself which one of those get hosted at the site.

You wont ever find a highly dedicated mapcheck team, that checks maps, day in and day out, taking screenshots of bugs, communicating with the mappers, check 10 different versions of maps, teach things and stuff. Thats just my experience;)

I am pretty sure if we let the mappers have complete freedom and help by the community, instead of crits by an admin staff the activity would rise.

Cosy lets mappers to have complete freedom, as result too many short, boring and bugged maps. Hosting records for such maps I consider inadequate. XJ providing certain gameplay experience and mapadmins should maintain that.

Personally I would like to see:
1. complete transparency in mapchecking process for public (post factum)
2. better communication with mappers and help offer. Even education if possible as SF suggested.
3. attempt to make public checks to work again one way or another
4. releasing fewer maps but more frequently maybe

For me a map with some bugs is not that important, kreedzers are used to bugs and how to use them for advantage and fun (oh you silly hl engine hihi). New maps for the people hurray!

Some short maps are really funny imo! It seems like you only accept like 5min+ maps these latest years. Maps under 1min I think also should have a chance to be accpeted.

[blockquote]- Every map has to be posted at a presentation/release forum, where Level Designer can actually officially release their maps as custom maps. They have to host them by themselves tho.[/blockquote]

It was already done. Public mapchecking was the name of the forum. There was even a menu on the right side at the top of the online menu, where you could see the last 5 voted maps. Activity was 0. Mappers could and still can submit their maps free out to the public as custom without submitting them here for mapcheck. The difference is that there won't be any record on XJ or a download link. I can reactivate the forum so you guys can see the actual activity.

[blockquote]- Mapadmins check threads and post news about those maps being developed/released to kinda promote them.[/blockquote]

Again,when the publicmapcheck system was introduced mapadmin and the whole community was given a chance to check all maps nfront of the whole community. Again, the activity was almost 0, ~20, 30 votes from 70k members, some from friends who were newly registered members with one or two post just so the mapper can get his map accepted, others only with votes like "YES, awesome map accepted it" and no proper feedback.

[blockquote]- Every month could be a public voting for the best releases and for which maps are worth beeing in the content list of XJ.[/blockquote]

It wasn't every month, but when a map reaches let's say 30 votes, the map was being forwarded to xj map admins where we did quick checks searching for left over bugs before the release.

[blockquote]- The admins check the maps, and if they feel some of them are really that awesome post a vote for beeing official "kz_" maps.[/blockquote]

Se my other comments.

@SF

[blockquote]1. Cosy exists due to incorrect decisions of map admins who many not actually understand what they are doing. Don't get mad at me until you read the rest please if you are an admin. I am only here to help. :D[/blockquote]

Yes, cosy exist because of that, and not we still love you <3.

[blockquote]2. The only way to get 90% of the maps sent in into a good, releasable shape, is to teach and assist the way I have done for many years on the XJ scene and in KZmod with undying patience. The rest of that utopia depends on the lazyness of each mapper himself/herself.[/blockquote]

You say that each map should be with a reasonable shape, we also says that. But does this includes X square jumps with straight walls?
Good idea for assisting mappers, really. Who will do that? You? 90% of the mappers are super lazy who want their maps on XJ, but when we report them 20+ bugs (null, texture, light, brush bugs) their answer is something like this "nah, I won't change anything", "nowadays you must know XJ staff and have connections to get your map accepted" and many others. I'm already busy with tons of other things on XJ as you know and we all have a personal life to take care. There are plenty of tutorials over the internet.

[blockquote]3. There should NEVER EVER be a map that is denied a KZ_ tag if it was made for this site and sent in as one. If it sucks.....Read number 2 please. Telling a mapper he can't name his map KZ is telling that mapper not to map for us because he sucks. Which is reason number two for the existance of COSY and many other sites before it that housed denied maps starting with silent noob for those who remember his "maps" :D[/blockquote]

Sometimes mappers submit their maps for KZ_ tag, which is cool. We never told mappers they can't name their maps with KZ_ tag. Sure, you can name it, but please don't release it on the public with KZ_ tag because it's forbidden. If someone submits a map with KZ_ tag we will check his map and give him a proper feedback. If the map has many bugs, we would simply deny the map until the mapper fixes all bugs and if everything is fine after that we would accept his map.

[blockquote]4. A Mapper requires a Map Admin team and the Public to guide him to a level to be able to create a good map and nothing more. The decision to add a map to an official XJ server can be done, like FragGyver suggested, by vote. A vote of those people who are GOING TO PLAY IT. Not admins who dont play them that much online.[/blockquote]

See my comments to Frag.

[blockquote]5. What this scene needs is people like me: Teachers.
Thats what Map Admins should be and not people who deny without a word as to why. Teach new mappers design aspects and how to reduce frame problems and to realize that gameplay is number 1 and look is number 2 but is still very important. I will even sit down with the Map Admin team and discuss such things if desired to help![/blockquote]

Like I said before, I would be more than happy if you start writing tutorials. Our articles page is where we host all the tutorials (text and videos). When I have more time, I will upload there ~50 1.6 mapping tutorials from me and many other mappers. Just because I don't post anymore in the denied/accepted maps thread it doesn't mean that I don't get in touch with mappers.

[blockquote]Mappers:
Like FragGyver says, because he knows how KZmod worked so well: A Map Presentation forum is required.
Players who love testing jumps and finding shortcuts should just dive right into a forum like this because you help the whole of the community by doing what you do best.
With the addition of such a forum, the Mapper, has to realize he is doing to have others help him/her improve the map, and wait for comments.[/blockquote]

Again, see my comments to Frag.
The community wants new maps, so do the XJ admins. However, when we gave the community an option to accept the maps, nothing. No comments, no threads, no proper feedback. So you can see that we can't rely on the community to do this, because simply 90% of them are lazy. The rest 10% have real life.

@Frag
[blockquote]I know the problem about the activity in mapchecking, i have been there myself back in, i guess 2009ish. What im saying is, let the ppl release there maps whatever the quality is. And you decide for yourself which one of those get hosted at the site.[/blockquote]

People ARE ALLOWED to release their maps where and whenever they want. The only thing we ask them is to not releasing their maps with KZ_ tag on public, before our admins check them, simply because to honor KreedZ.

Things must be simplier!

We all know that the more people there are to accomplish a task, the longer it will take and the more problems they will encounter (communications,...).

Things were working well long time ago, only one person was picking up the maps. Why not do this now?

1. People send their map
2. one guy (admin, CEO,...) plays it for 10-15min, accepts it or not, with lower standards than nowadays.
3. Map is added to record pool
4. If a huge bug or something not cool is discovered afterwards, map is removed, even if people recorded it

The Map Admins would still be there to help mappers who want to fix their bugs etc.
Most of these maps would be included as custom maps, the best ones as kz_ ones.
We've seen that all these not-so-good maps accepted on Cosy-Climbing never prevented good maps from being made too.

I already see the "dictatorship blablabla" coming, but no one was complaining when Kreedz was the only one to pick maps. Maps weren't as evolved as nowadays and I guess most of Map Admins have more knowledge than him nowadays, so someone could take care of it.

Originally posted by spr1n

Nikita! and WeMeRA, I never said ALL short maps are boring. Of course there are enough good and enjoyable short(and long) maps, but also cosy has " too many short, boring and bugged maps" and a lot of people do recognize this issue . I would gladly see more fun short maps here, we actually need them along with other good and fun ones, but making XJ a dump for all bad maps that just few people enjoy like on cosy is ridiculous.

Okay, here is my opinions on this subject. I personally don't think all maps should be released on this site. Like others have said before me, the amount of short maps that take 15 minutes to build is too many. I remember when the mapcheck system was introduced, many maps were removed from the site and several mappers were invited to the team, myself included. I, and most of the community agreed with these actions.

Now, the system is flawed. It could be better, especially with more testers to get a broader view of the maps. But we already tried that a long time ago with public checks for custom maps. It was rather disappointing. Most of the time if a map even got 20 or so votes it was mostly friends of the mappers just voting to say YES. Even if the rules strictly said and we kept informing them that you had to post at least some words about why you like this map and why you think it should be accepted.

The general interest in new maps is fairly low. That's at least how I feel. There isn't a lot of interest when posting images or betas of new maps in the forums. I have tried it multiple times but mostly I get maybe 5 people responding with feedback, and even fewer with some constructive feedback when I can see that over 100 people downloaded a beta version. I loose interest to make maps when I see few responses to new maps.

XJ could give the public voting a shot again. Something should be changed since the lack of map releases is a trouble, not only the community, but mappers who loose motivation. If we could get the community to actively check and post in the map presentation forum and also an eventual map voting forum, I think more and better maps would come from it.