kz_longjumps3/s and the approach in making it.
Originally posted by Malleei just stated, this should be addressed in a different thread/topic. we aren't talking about the actual map.
since chinchin just 'released' the maps there, i thought saying those things here would be appropriate
04/06/2020 23:28Very good points zver, this what i am talking about, opinions of anyone that desire to leave a comment, no matter if it know hammer or very pro.
This project is about the people of the community where they can get involved easily.
It is good you said this things here zver, there is no official newspost or forum thread with the ones involved in this project and responding actively, so it is for now the only place we can say our opinion, in a random thread.
Mallee says good too, we need specific thread or place for what is to be addressed about such large subject that takes in sides of mapping/jumping/creativity/design/whatever is there in creating such an important thing for our community, etc.
I want people to think of something , if any user post a disagreement with what is so far made, please take into account that is a perspective and how they believe a certain thing.
This is where my concept of actual communication and many minds coming together to find what is that is the best way to make something.
Having an official place where the entire community can voice and say their opinion can spark discussion to the best outcome.
As perd0 said, it is a problem of handling the actual situation.
If someone voices an opinion how they envision the map to take form, you will automatic compare with what is made currently without the community's input. The comment has of no bad intent behind it.
This project with no doors-open, simply has the lack of large voices/minds/visions/etc that people can bring to the table when starting a project and putting ideas into constructing a fabulous end result.
That is why i have opened the thread,the feeling of what can be accomplished is much more if we put more heads to the thing of matter.
I voiced my opinion and hope for a more opened interaction between staff and the entire community.
I believe it can only be towards good.
of course none of my comments had a bad intent.
just the feeling that as hm asked for his map in some thread not long ago for many mappers to help him with parts for his map and ideas, i dont see why a project of such important (imo) wouldnt had a thread with ideas both from mappers and just players
05/06/2020 03:25After taking a look at both maps, it feels wrong to me to just copy the style of longjumps2. Surely, there are talented mappers that can create their own layouts inspired by longjumps2, without just copying the style and layout completely. Also, if you keep the two block gaps in blocks i see no reason people wouldn't still use longjumps2 except for the new techniques that are being added.
This feels like a map that has no character or identity of it's own.
As for the whole debate about community helping out, I don't see any reason not to give .rmf files with the stages and see what people can come up with, surely it can be made more personal than this.
12 years since last map and using same textures
#justXJthings
How do you expect ljers to get inspired and say "fuck yeah, that's a nice refreshing new map" and geek, when it's the same fucking shit all around?
05/06/2020 18:55Seems the XJ discord is place with not a crumble of seriousness, normal question are taken as a joke by the ones holding admin position.
hoLy i would really appreciate you trying to be active in such important topic, open mind to others opinion and trying to discuss them is important.
Never addressing the concern in your community, and having your admins saying they have no obligation to explain what you guys are in charge of, behind closed doors.
https://i.imgur.com/2uk4Jpb.png Here hoLy, i dont understand why not put it in the open to the community to make something together , you guys decided to keep it for the staff only and apparently made something that "poeple dont like it".
I think i said enough of how we should be a community and doing stuff together, i wont repeat myslef.
Can you please address any of this concept, allowing the entire base be part of it and having the chance at helping build it?
We have no serious place where admins actually discuss instead of defending when there was no intent of any "attack", only normal conversation towards the better.
In forum the admins ignore the actual problem of not involving the community more, while in discord normal discussion is taken as a joke, or a place for boasting how no one could do what they are doing, as in this case where Evis responded to me before i started this thread (Unlike other admins, hoLy, you are clearly more level headed and polite when actually respnding, as seen under evis response. ) https://i.imgur.com/XlCCb2B.png
I am just confused and seeking answers with none given from the ones having them.
It is very disheartening to witness.
05/06/2020 19:25Originally posted by Spider1Seems the XJ discord is place with not a crumble of seriousness, normal question are taken as a joke by the ones holding admin position.
hoLy i would really appreciate you trying to be active in such important topic, open mind to others opinion and trying to discuss them is important.
Never addressing the concern in your community, and having your admins saying they have no obligation to explain what you guys are in charge of, behind closed doors.
https://i.imgur.com/2uk4Jpb.png Here hoLy, i dont understand why not put it in the open to the community to make something together , you guys decided to keep it for the staff only and apparently made something that "poeple dont like it".
I think i said enough of how we should be a community and doing stuff together, i wont repeat myslef.
Can you please address any of this concept, allowing the entire base be part of it and having the chance at helping build it?
We have no serious place where admins actually discuss instead of defending when there was no intent of any "attack", only normal conversation towards the better.
In forum the admins ignore the actual problem of not involving the community more, while in discord normal discussion is taken as a joke, or a place for boasting how no one could do what they are doing, as in this case where Evis responded to me before i started this thread (Unlike other admins, hoLy, you are clearly more level headed and polite when actually respnding, as seen under evis response. ) https://i.imgur.com/XlCCb2B.png
I am just confused and seeking answers with none given from the ones having them.
It is very disheartening to witness.
As I read your posts I get the impression you really want to help on the other hand I wasted over 15 minutes arguing with Malle over a point that ivansky just proved, and I quote myself when arguing with Malle "If I was chichin I would delete the map myself and say "do it yourselves then my shift is over"" and now that I see what he said, I started to like him. This community was always full of ungrateful people who NEVER appreciate the work, NEVER.
And I would say ivansky should understand this as a player and moviemaker himself who has been on the target for critics aswell but what can we say, its way easier to point fingers than being pointed.
No hard feelings Spider1, even I told Malle that you are a good mapper, daza, perd0 and so on and for sure you all could do a good map but I will be straight, with such attitudes is just making fun of chichin's work and time spent on a map that has literally no other job than having no other thing than 200< blocks.
As I speak this way is just my frustration coming above the skin for 10 years of work, unpaid work, where as I have seen the community treating people's work like trash when all they could do is chat spam and comment spam crap. So with this being said and again, no hard feelings Spider1, you are a great mapper but I would say: do a kz_ljs3 with Malle (as he wants it so much) and gather parts like hm^ often does and do a community ljs3, I am sure that head staff can reconsider such project.
With best regards, zythH^.
05/06/2020 19:40(edited 05/06/2020 19:40)Originally posted by zythH^...
Stop pulling that victim role card.
This topic has nothing to do with the quality of the map, but more with the business operations.
also better keep my name out of your reply. because afaik you are just whining about what you did as a person for this community and what you got back from it (karma doesnt work that way).
Sometimes you must give more than you take.
Also zyth. its not relevant to say what you think about the map and people who are doing that already should create a new thread (mentioned several times before).
05/06/2020 20:01Originally posted by MalleeOriginally posted by zythH^...
Stop pulling that victim role card.
This topic has nothing to do with the quality of the map, but more with the business operations.
also better keep my name out of your reply. because afaik you are just whining about what you did as a person for this community and what you got back from it (karma doesnt work that way).
Sometimes you must give more than you take.
Also zyth. its not relevant to say what you think about the map and people who are doing that already should create a new thread (mentioned several times before).
All I can do at ur posts is fucking rofl, you say the very same words to everyone both here, discord and steam, you probably fucked up your memory disk and can't write any other thing. The business "operations" as you so much call it is pretty much whine about a square map like someone said on discord, this is not an elite map to be done, I would bet 100 bucks right now every decent mapper could perform a decent kz_ljs3 (no disrespect to any mapper's work) but the OPERATIONS (we look like we are SWATS wow) would most likely throw chichin's and qicg's work to trashcan which it looks pretty much that is what you want, or at least, remake the work that they have done. I am not sure but I would also assume they were asked to do the map, otherwise, who would by free will spend time on a kz_ljs3 when kz_ljs2 works just fine atm? If they were asked and the map is close to conclusion, why debate so hard on a square map that is built with one purpose only: land longjumps.
Secondly and last: You and your attitude is just the dogshit attitude that was around XJ for the 10 years I have seen, people spending countless hours working on stuff to people just come and trashtalk the people that have actually DONE something. You as a mapper should understand, but as you said before: trashtalking doesn't affect you, again, I am glad for you lmao. Seriously.
Now, as chichin said: do it yourself and present it to the community, I sincerely hope you make a great map, as usual, and eventually make it to the maps list as the official one. Good luck.
05/06/2020 20:34(edited 05/06/2020 20:35)Originally posted by zythH^All I can do at ur posts is fucking rofl, you say the very same words to everyone both here, discord and steam, you probably fucked up your memory disk and can't write any other thing.
off-topic (again)
Originally posted by zythH^The business "operations" as you so much call it is pretty much whine about a square map like someone said on discord, this is not an elite map to be done,
What are you trying to explain?
'Everything that happens within a company to keep it running and earning money is referred to collectively as business operations. Business plans often include a section dedicated to operations so that company founders understand the systems, equipment, people, and processes need to make the organization function' reference
in XJ case its a non-profit situation. but still a community based aspect where we are all have a contribution if we want.
Originally posted by zythH^I would bet 100 bucks right now every decent mapper could perform a decent kz_ljs3 (no disrespect to any mapper's work) but the OPERATIONS (we look like we are SWATS wow)
off-topic again
Originally posted by zythH^would most likely throw chichin's and qicg's work to trashcan which it looks pretty much that is what you want, or at least, remake the work that they have done. I am not sure but I would also assume they were asked to do the map,
no one did say this option so far, what i saw that other people said is that they want to be involved and give feedback on the current project
Originally posted by zythH^otherwise, who would by free will spend time on a kz_ljs3 when kz_ljs2 works just fine atm? If they were asked and the map is close to conclusion, why debate so hard on a square map that is built with one purpose only: land longjumps.
if it the soul purpose was that it would have been released with different textures and no architecture at all.
Originally posted by zythH^Secondly and last: You and your attitude is just the dogshit attitude that was around XJ for the 10 years I have seen, people spending countless hours working on stuff to people just come and trashtalk the people that have actually DONE something. You as a mapper should understand, but as you said before: trashtalking doesn't affect you, again, I am glad for you lmao. Seriously.
There is a difference between our constructive feedback and blatant insults. if you cannot filter the difference between constructive feedback and criticism isn't my problem.
Originally posted by zythH^Now, as chichin said: do it yourself and present it to the community, I sincerely hope you make a great map, as usual, and eventually make it to the maps list as the official one. Good luck.
if he did say that that means he still excludes him from the community and he has no part in that community in my opinion, for a simple reason that we should make it together which is the soul purpose of a community.
05/06/2020 20:43Few hours ago: XJ can't be compared to companies or democracies as it is a community.
Now: you give examples of what a company is, so with your source, do I need to remind you what CEO is? CEO whose primary responsibilities include making major corporate decisions, if holy requested chichin to do the map, why wouldn't chichin do it if he wanted and why wouldn't holy be allowed to ask for it as CEO of a community? (source for CEO's job)Yet again, your wish is to do the map or at least take part of it. I will leave my 2 cents once more:
Do it with everyone you want, present us the map and make us happy with your creation like you have made with your other maps. Good luck and no hard feelings.
Cya around here.
05/06/2020 20:48Originally posted by zythH^why wouldn't chichin do it if he wanted and why wouldn't holy be allowed to ask for it as CEO of a community?
The answer to that is this thread.
you got it all wrong, noone in this thread said that chinchin did something wrong or the work wasnt apprecieted.
it has nothing to do with the map as it is, but the idea of a map of such importance given to only few peoples(being them xj admins, mappers chosen by them or any other), we are talking about how the maps idea was handled, a simple pinned topic or a news post would've been easy to do and a big upgrade, you dont need to make everyone happy ofcouse, but if you post it on the start of a project, maybe explain some limitations about mapping or new techniques that xj want to implement and some things that are key to that project and then ask for some ideas/help that would've been a lot better. as i said in a previous post, i think that this project should've been of interest for all kz players, as i see kz_lj as being an iconic map for the kz community. i do not have anything against chinchin or xj's admins, but i still think the idea was wrong handled.
EDIT: also, you know, people would feel atleast better hearing that 'well we could not implement that' rather then feeling the 'we don't care about your ideas or needs' shit :D
06/06/2020 11:00Originally posted by zver...
Already been said. Stop overexplaining.
Well.. I checked kz_longjumps3 map and dissapointed so much.
As for me this map should primarily contains blocks for all most known techniques maid with all possible ways including jumps with weapons. So first point: these blocks interval 2 or 5 units crushing such LJ records part like LJ with heavy weapons.
Then I tried to find logic in block limits: CJ 240-283 blocks where 283 is possible record with scout (I think 285 should be better but, ok..). But then we move to other techniques and can see some kind of random sh*t:
LJ - 262. WTF?!? is this block for knife or scout? Current WR with scout is 263.
HJ - 249?? WR will be 250+
Bhop 250. WR 255.
Originally posted by ChichinQ: Why are the block distances increasing with step of 2, like 240 .. 242 .. ?
A: engine limitations again with allocBlock. Skipping some blocks in the lower range allows the map to fit into the limit.
Originally posted by p0kerBut more importantly, the core idea of this project is not kz_longjumps3, but rather the new techniques making it into the lj section. As I mentioned to you in discord (and now to everyone else) if we wanted to only add bj, scj, acj and ascj then kz_longjumps3 wouldn't be even needed.
How is it possible to record ascj on this map where we have 5 step on CJ blocks 240-260??
Bhop blocks: What is the speed of blocks falling ? It looks like blocks on kz_longjumps_1. So 248+ will be impossible on this map.
The only techinque I like in this map is ladder.
Dont really want to say smth about duck bhop and wall slde jumps. IMO it looks just like a joke.. But If XJ admins included them in vote poll and XJ membrs voted for them I will gladly see how will they sweat to record these "jumps".
My suggestions:
1. I consider we dont need to separate LJ, CJ, and WJ blocks(scj and ascj). Its can be done in any unique way (for ex CJ type with any platform on the top to make WJ). So this will allow you to make the map more "light".
2. Block limits should be: 220 - 285 for this unique blocks with 1 unit step. (As bonus blocks (like ladder on kz_lj2) it cound be interesting to include 258.1, 258.2, ... , 258.9 blocks in any secret room).
3. Bhop blocks shoud have a time to not fall down right after touching if we want to have 249-250 blocks wrs. I dont understand why any mapper can make this fall speed in way hi like. Bhop blocks shoud not fall down (Or fall only for aesthetic beauty in few miliseconds after jumping).
Conserning design: Honestly I dont really care about it cuz functionality of the map is more important. But I also wanted to see smth new cuz when you stayed on kz_lj2 map for hours and for years this textures became sickening :(
Read FAQ
06/06/2020 20:46Thank you for caring.
All I can say is that we won't release the maps in their current state if the majority of the community don't like them. We'll try to update the maps as your wishes but can't promise we'll succeed as the map limitations are pretty much reached already. Feel free to propose another version of the maps though (if you're a mapper), we'll definitely look into it.
Further details will be revealed soon in a new thread.
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