The Chopping Block - topoviygus
KZ is dead af, hackers won. Case closed
26/05/2021 18:28what if there is sort of hack that could store all the moves of a player without missing any information( we all know mice and keyboards have refresh rate, hence the moves of mice and keyboard are not continuous but discrete, we take all these into account), he could record all segments of run and then combine all moves together to get a wrbot and you cannt tell whether the player ur specting is real player or bot cause basically what the game engine receives is just sequence of mice/keyboard input, there is no difference if these sequence is done by bot or human, he just need to run this wrbot to have a legal demo.
I know little about demochecking but it is obvious that demo cant tell you everything. In short, u cant tell who is behind the game, a true man or a meticulously designed robot.
I am not implying something nor attacking anybody, i might be wrong but the possibility do exists
Originally posted by vespeRwhat if there is sort of hack that could store all the moves of a player without missing any information( we all know mice and keyboards have refresh rate, hence the moves of mice and keyboard are not continuous but discrete, we take all these into account), he could record all segments of run and then combine all moves together to get a wrbot and you cannt tell whether the player ur specting is real player or bot cause basically what the game engine receives is just sequence of mice/keyboard input, there is no difference if these sequence is done by bot or human, he just need to run this wrbot to have a legal demo.
I know little about demochecking but it is obvious that demo cant tell you everything. In short, u cant tell who is behind the game, a true man or a meticulously designed robot.
I am not implying something nor attacking anybody, i might be wrong but the possibility do exists
[blockquote]1. Forget slowmo & segmented demos (this should be obvious since the player can perform live on the same level as demos)
[/blockquote]
so what, u sayin he plays some sort of failed demos and we watch it together on twitch ?
or he got a dynamic player which understands when to play the run for cups ?
26/05/2021 18:53Originally posted by PeKz^Originally posted by vespeRwhat if there is sort of hack that could store all the moves of a player without missing any information( we all know mice and keyboards have refresh rate, hence the moves of mice and keyboard are not continuous but discrete, we take all these into account), he could record all segments of run and then combine all moves together to get a wrbot and you cannt tell whether the player ur specting is real player or bot cause basically what the game engine receives is just sequence of mice/keyboard input, there is no difference if these sequence is done by bot or human, he just need to run this wrbot to have a legal demo.
I know little about demochecking but it is obvious that demo cant tell you everything. In short, u cant tell who is behind the game, a true man or a meticulously designed robot.
I am not implying something nor attacking anybody, i might be wrong but the possibility do exists
[blockquote]1. Forget slowmo & segmented demos (this should be obvious since the player can perform live on the same level as demos)
[/blockquote]
so what, u sayin he plays some sort of failed demos and we watch it together on twitch ?
or he got a dynamic player which understands when to play the run for cups ?
Demos are ofc not segmented, but the keyboards and mice movements could be store and replay and hence manipulate at will, dunno if u have experience of using Logitech ghub to record mice movements, there might be hack just like that but way more advanced and hard to detect.
I don’t want to offend anybody all I am doing here is trying to discuss the possibility of a hacking strategy, this is the simplest form of hack I could come up with that satisfies 1) possible to do while having spectators on lan or server while streaming, as long as the player is skilled enough that could make all these moves possible given enough time, the hack could be made and run at any time the player want; 2) impossible to find any trace just by checking demo, this is obvious cause demo can’t tell you what is running in the computer other than counter strike and steam.
I am not going to offend anybody, this is just a peaceful discuss
but with that storage movement theory its kinda sucks to pretend all time and do the movement when u want and use it when u want. Imagine in run where u have literally no time to do something else than focus to use your cheat for this part or this part or now i fail and then i use cheat and etc. Seems kinda bullshit to do it that way all time even at stream focus to not do something fishy or some kind of mistatake.
Im wondering how far you guys can go with idiotic theories. One is better then the other. Go on guys. I bet gus is laughing hard reading this thread
well we just talking about something and with release like that i would laught and enjoy this popularity because there is always someone who dont believe and never will be until its proven otherwise. Its not like we are talking about topo or something he is doing we just talk about cheating. And u can tell from my comment before i dont think topo is cheating so :D
26/05/2021 20:01(edited 26/05/2021 20:04)Originally posted by yahooooIm wondering how far you guys can go with idiotic theories. One is better then the other. Go on guys. I bet gus is laughing hard reading this thread
Few years ago, LyNn was also laughing hard about his chopping block thread and then it happened.
@vesper, thats an interesting theory and indeed he would still need to be skilled enough to perform skilled combos in order to do sick runs. He obviously is a good player but to what extent is what we have to find out. VNS was also a good player, kayne also cheated and was a great player, Avatar also used MSL and still holds the 270 CJ world record legit, same with akseon. So being a cheater doesn't mean you are a bad player, you are just improving ur skills to the next level. I can only imagine if the todays top players cheated, it would be a madness of 400 demos.
26/05/2021 20:17i shall illustrate my point more specifically
so imagine i am a skilled kz player that is good enough to get a decent rank in every cup i participate in (this should not be impossible cause we have so many such players now and before), and i happen to have a hack that enables me to record my keyboard and mouse movements completely and replay all the moves without missing anything, this hack is independent from steam and counter-strike so there is no way to leave any trace.
if i am gonna beat topo on bkz_goldbhop in a decent serveruptime, what should i do?
RECORD: start from the moment i press the start button, if i bind pressing startbutt to "e", my hack should record a sequence of e....e...ee.e... plus some mouse movements at the very beginning of a run. then i start bhoping, trying to make every skip necessary in a wr level run, if i fail, i would restart the demo and restart RECORD my movements.
after several attempts, i successfully land in the kz part of goldbhop with good time and start to climb+continue to RECORD. there are 3(4 if you dont do ascj in the 4th block of the kzpart) blocks that even topo has to stop, i would PAUSE RECORD the very first time i land on these block to make sure the movements i record before PAUSE is good enough to make a wr.
After PAUSE, i would store the movements before PAUSE, start a new RECORD (namely RECORD2) immediately, if i successfully land on the next stop block without any fail, i would combine RECORD1 and RECORD2;
if i fail before landing on the next stop block, then i could choose either to restart the demo again without replaying RECORD1 or replay RECORD1. if i am smart, i would not replay but try 2or3 new runs without using hack. then at the 4th restart attempt, i decide to replay RECORD1, and this takes me all the way to stop block1, at the moment i land on the stop block1, i start my hack wuth RECORD2, then i successfully land on the stop block2, PAUSE, i have RECORD1 and RECORD2 now. after 20-30 attempt i got 3 segments (startbutt - stop block1; stop block2 - stop block3; stop block3 - end)
finally, i decide to finish all these shit to make a perfect run, i start a new demo, replay RECORD1, wait till RECORD1 end and land on stop block1, then i land on stop block1, RECORD1 end, i start RECORD2 till stop block2 and vice versa.
the above hack consists of only 3 components: RECORD, PAUSE, REPLAY all of them could be carried out with a flick of wrist while having spectators on lan/servers while streaming.
But this hack could be detected by comparing all runs attempt carefully, u would find 2 exactly same movements in 2 different run. but for the reasons of lag, demos recorded by spectators is not complete and missing out some information ( thats the reason why xj requires all demo recorded on lan), so this evidence is not solid, let alone nobody records while spectating, even if you have a full record, it is a huge amount of workload comparing all the runs one by one.
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all above is just a possible hack strategy, i read the article FAME post on cosy many years ago pointing out there were 2 different demos with exact same wr time and the existence of such a replay hack. i try to comprehend different opinions from both sides, even though i firmly believe all the demso checked by admin and post on xj are clean af and i hate spreading unverified accusation, i still cannot deny the possibility of the existence of undetectable hack. :( time will tell.
Originally posted by zythH^Originally posted by yahooooIm wondering how far you guys can go with idiotic theories. One is better then the other. Go on guys. I bet gus is laughing hard reading this thread
Few years ago, LyNn was also laughing hard about his chopping block thread and then it happened.
@vesper, thats an interesting theory and indeed he would still need to be skilled enough to perform skilled combos in order to do sick runs. He obviously is a good player but to what extent is what we have to find out. VNS was also a good player, kayne also cheated and was a great player, Avatar also used MSL and still holds the 270 CJ world record legit, same with akseon. So being a cheater doesn't mean you are a bad player, you are just improving ur skills to the next level. I can only imagine if the todays top players cheated, it would be a madness of 400 demos.
I know its not related to this thread but wheres the actual and concrete proof of vns hacking?
26/05/2021 20:52Originally posted by PeKz^Originally posted by zythH^Originally posted by yahooooIm wondering how far you guys can go with idiotic theories. One is better then the other. Go on guys. I bet gus is laughing hard reading this thread
Few years ago, LyNn was also laughing hard about his chopping block thread and then it happened.
@vesper, thats an interesting theory and indeed he would still need to be skilled enough to perform skilled combos in order to do sick runs. He obviously is a good player but to what extent is what we have to find out. VNS was also a good player, kayne also cheated and was a great player, Avatar also used MSL and still holds the 270 CJ world record legit, same with akseon. So being a cheater doesn't mean you are a bad player, you are just improving ur skills to the next level. I can only imagine if the todays top players cheated, it would be a madness of 400 demos.
I know its not related to this thread but wheres the actual and concrete proof of vns hacking?
https://xtreme-jumps.eu/comment.php?comment.news.2136
Originally posted by zythH^Originally posted by PeKz^Originally posted by zythH^Originally posted by yahooooIm wondering how far you guys can go with idiotic theories. One is better then the other. Go on guys. I bet gus is laughing hard reading this thread
Few years ago, LyNn was also laughing hard about his chopping block thread and then it happened.
@vesper, thats an interesting theory and indeed he would still need to be skilled enough to perform skilled combos in order to do sick runs. He obviously is a good player but to what extent is what we have to find out. VNS was also a good player, kayne also cheated and was a great player, Avatar also used MSL and still holds the 270 CJ world record legit, same with akseon. So being a cheater doesn't mean you are a bad player, you are just improving ur skills to the next level. I can only imagine if the todays top players cheated, it would be a madness of 400 demos.
I know its not related to this thread but wheres the actual and concrete proof of vns hacking?
https://xtreme-jumps.eu/comment.php?comment.news.2136
I dont see anything here
26/05/2021 21:10@PeKz^
I am not sure but can't you see both fame and eDark literally busted every cheated demo from VNS from 2012 to 2015 and he was actually legit from 2010 to 2012? I am either feeding a troll or dunno. Let's stick to the topic, if anything private or steam.
Gj gus, hvatit jrat’ meldonii.
Insufficient evidence, clearly. I vote to unban VNS.
Originally posted by EvisInsufficient evidence, clearly. I vote to unban VNS.
For real, is there any evidence? Other than some text quotes ?
Vns hacked, he had more than 1 hack. In 1 demo, he used wrong hack by accident (some pubhack on lan) the hack he used, were undetected on xj except the one he got caught of. Thats all info i heard, so yes he did hack.
Originally posted by StabilotVns hacked, he had more than 1 hack. In 1 demo, he used wrong hack by accident (some pubhack on lan) the hack he used, were undetected on xj except the one he got caught of. Thats all info i heard, so yes he did hack.
Isnt this weird?
(Im sayin this If he was cheater ) being smart and bypassing xj demoadmins for years and accidentally use pub hack?
26/05/2021 22:59Originally posted by PeKz^Originally posted by EvisInsufficient evidence, clearly. I vote to unban VNS.
For real, is there any evidence? Other than some text quotes ?
It’s understandable that the admin refuse to reveal more detailed info on what hack VNS used or how do they detect cheats, there is not much resource to be invested in developing anticheat tech. It’s like hosting a final exam of 200 students and you are the only one invigilator, u just need to sit down in the back of the classroom where no one could see what u doing to post sufficient threat to those attempting to cheat.
Cheating isnt about beeing smart, it's about beeing less where you are and beeing more where you aint. Give a noob a hack and he can do dyd_bhop easy. Combine a legit proplayer with a hack and you get a extremely dominant player. And what i heard is from a source wich I trust 100% he might tabbed out, got back in and went lan and forgot..