Democratic Mapchecking
11/04/2008 19:47(edited 11/04/2008 19:48)Here's a blueprint of a fair system to check maps more democratically I thought about some days ago.
There will be a section called "Public Mapchecking" that is available to everyone who has created an accepted map yet (Ofc considering exceptions if somebody for example always went for custom using his own tag).
On this section one can download the maps to be checked and have a look. The vote a user gives plus the comment he has to write is visible to the admins only. It will be invisible to other users (No "sympathy-voting" nor influences on each other). Votes that came without a comment or with a comment of no use ( must contain constructive critiques ) have no validity and will lead to a warning.
People can get banned or kicked from the section on violating the rules. Therefore there must be an admin selected, regarding the happenings in this section. This admin will be chosen out of the current map-admins.
If the map is was checked and everything is all done, the map will be removed from the section.
The weightiness of the votes ( users - admins ) should be like about ( 40% - 60% ).
There will be set up rules about what a comment coming along with a vote must have.
Further, each mapper who has submitted his map will gain acces to his map-checking-thread on the mapchecking-section. ( No commenting - Just watching! -> to prevent disputes and going offtopic )
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That's it - lots of scripting I guess. Anyway, XJ has reached so much yet, - Why not doing a really big step getting this community even more democratic and autonomous?
Thanks for your attention ;)
11/04/2008 20:31that is a really nice idea dalai but the main problem would be the invisible forum post, because e107 haven't got a function like that.
Another problem would be that the map will be leaking out of the intern forums.
Anyway it is a nice idea and should be tested.
12/04/2008 16:00yea thats rly a nice idea but ppl who have acces to the maps can share them with other ppl and then it wont be secret anymore.
but if i was an admin i would give it a try fo sho :)
12/04/2008 16:47(edited 12/04/2008 16:48)Well!
If an XJ-MiP-Admin is told about a snitch passing the map to friends hel'll get fucked.
This will lead to mistrust and fear of getting caught.
Second might be some swearing or agreement not to pass a map. Passing of maps to friends can cause a permanent ban from XJ.
Now there comes the problem of proving the guiltiness. I thought about a solution but it's getting complex and nearly unrealistic here so watch out!
One can add Entities to an map without recompiling the whole map. So there will a standalone file, coded by some of the pros that are around here, that does the following:
1) Generation of a sprite holding the user's name.
2) Addition of this Sprite to one *.bsp per user (all individual). So there is ONE and CERTAIN file for each user who is allowed to vote on maps. This is like a fingerprint.
This method will cost a lot of webspace temporarly. The maps are all getting deleted after mapchecking is through.
Each user is given a password to get acces to download his map. Further the users name who downloaded a file is stored also. (So XJ-MiP-Admins can trace it back).
It's a lot of work and pretty complex but Im sure it can all be automized.
12/04/2008 17:59Originally posted by Dalai1) Generation of a sprite holding the user's name.
2) Addition of this Sprite to one *.bsp per user (all individual). So there is ONE and CERTAIN file for each user who is allowed to vote on maps. This is like a fingerprint.
nice idea :)
im pretty sure ppl will share the maps
and there is no way to avoid it
the main problem is, that people will put the maps up thier server... then the map gets spread. if the map gets denied the map will still be out there with kz_ tag. or if it gets accepted and the mapper only needs to fix a few things there will be always 2 versions of the map out there.
public mapchecking could be a good thing. however it must be 100% bulletproof and i dont think thats possible. so from time to time the above will happen and thats just too much trouble.
[blockquote]1) Generation of a sprite holding the user's name.
2) Addition of this Sprite to one *.bsp per user (all individual). So there is ONE and CERTAIN file for each user who is allowed to vote on maps. This is like a fingerprint.[/blockquote]
what stops the player to change those sprites?
22/05/2008 16:03(edited 22/05/2008 16:04)md5 checksums I guess. Creating a new map changes the map's fingerprint.
And why the fuck did I get warned?
Wrath^ made a stupid comment. He answered in one short unfounded sentence while I really took time to invent something new. It was imature what he did. He could at least have read all my text and have answered reasonably..
If make a thread, dont put download, but only screens, presents, credits, nivel, and the people see and post. For exemple, I want to be mapchecker, but must be very responsibility, need time, etc. But with this mode, I can help.
Originally posted by Dalaimd5 checksums I guess. Creating a new map changes the map's fingerprint.
changing the ent without recompiling will most likely change the md5 so i could change the ents without recompiling again so nobody could trace me back.
1 solution could be that only users with lets say 100+ posts or who is registered longer than xx month can test maps. this will make sure no noobs will vote every map down just for fun and stuff. also people with 100+ have most likely a good reputation too loose so its less likely that they will leak the map.
but still its too dangerous that the maps will get leaked i dont think public mapchecking will come.
22/05/2008 16:58(edited 22/05/2008 17:06)I guess I have to excuse me to Wrath^. Maybe I expressed my self a little unclearly. It's only available to those who have yet mapped a map that was accepted as a KZ map!
ehm, sorry btw ikm, what were you saying?
edit: And please if any admin could just delete my comment on the news and remove the warn-sign? It puts me as a noob posting imature flamings! Please. It really hurts to see you putting me, a longtime member who mapped several kz maps and always tries to help the xj community, as some newcomer who flames all day long. rather warn the "gj-sayers" hehe :D
EDIT 2: The solution!
Not the name of the member is added to each map, but a key only the admins and the person who is dedicated to get the map knows of!
Well, I don't exactly understand all the tech details, but I'm not so sure about this idea. First of all, this would kind of get rid of the element of surprise. The reason I enjoy map releases is that I can play entirely new maps that I've never seen before, and if I have the option to download the map in its earlier stages I'm sure it won't be too much fun afterwards. And if people decide not to download the maps exactly because they don't want to spoil themselves, then there's no point in a public check. :/
The second thing is, do you really think this is necessary at all? I think the mapchecking admins do a great job. This just kind of seems like a slap in the face for them, because you're indirectly saying that they might not be doing a good job. :/
22/05/2008 22:32its not a slap in my face s1gh...maybe it works good and....more checker -> more bugs and sc we can find before maprelease. imo we can give it a try
22/05/2008 23:49I don't get it Dalai? What did I say to you :S?
And I have read all of your texts.
22/05/2008 23:51(edited 23/05/2008 00:03)Well, was Germany slapped in the face when they (at least partially) set up a democracy after WWII? I dont think so.
What do I get blamed for if I speak for the community? Also please stop speculating about what people might like or dislike. One never knows. It's just a very theoretical blueprint to add a more democratic feeling when it comes to stuffs that really have an big impact on the community.
Do you really think I'm writing all these words just to flame and blame people? It's a suggestion that was not meant to insult anybody!
And Once And For All:
Only Mappers who have mapped a map that was assigned as a KZ_ map will have acces to this area and features.
The surprise wont be gone for the community but the suspense rises because they can expect far better maps than they can expect now. If there are more people checking maps there will be more people to help the mapper improving and adding things.
You all act as if everyone has mapped a accepted KZ map yet.
edit: (Wrath^)
I think it's just stupid to let the community test and find bugs etc.. Because then the whole excitement of a map-release would be gone. I think it's important that the upcoming maps are not exposed to the public.
-You called all my system "stupid". It took long time to invent and write it.
-The whole excitment is gone? No! First of all only mappers who have mapped a map that was accepted as a KZ_ map will gain acces to this possiblities. So most of the community wont know about these maps! and ofc its optionally, you neednt test maps if you want to get surprised!
-upcoming maps should not be exposed to the public?! I think you mean mips (maps in progress) should not be exposed to the public. You did not even take your time to write an understandable text holding real constructive critiques! I dont write that much to read that short and badly written comments...
edit2: (It's okay)
It's absolutly ok to dislike my idea! But please write an understandable text holding constructive critiques or major problems that would make it unworthy giving it a chance...
Why everytime I am wrong and non-sense?
Your comparison to Germany makes absolutely no sense, lol... Also, don't say that you're speaking for the community. I'm part of this community, and you're not speaking for me. Speak only for yourself. Also, I did not speculate on anyone's likes and dislikes, I merely stated my own.
And finally, I didn't mean that you were blaming someone purposely. I was just thinking that if I was a mapchecker and I saw this thread I couldn't help but feel a little offended. Maybe that's not true though, because Frag apparently has no problem with it.
I just don't agree with this idea, and I don't exactly see the point of it, because I think everything's pretty much fine as it is. You don't have to get all defensive, you didn't honestly expect to post this and have every single person agree with it, right?
23/05/2008 00:53(edited 23/05/2008 00:56)That is simply no fun. I know why I left once and I know why I'll leave soon.
ikm, I never said you were wrong, I said I didnt understand what you were trieng to come across. It was an issue of understanding what you wrote.
s1gh, It does not make sense? well than grab a book of history and start reading. Ok, well if I am not speaking in favor of the community, what am I speaking then for? Do you think I was simply bored? Think twice.
You felt offended? Sorry to have hurt your feelings! Are you checking maps right now? Have you ever mapped a map? I cannot remember.
Yeah, everything's fine. It's always everything fine! Yeah, so fine! Just sooo fine. Wake up. If you cant tell me whats wrong about this idea, the idea simply cannot be wrong. Come up with arguments.
Okay ;)
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OFf topic: Dalai, look at warnings http://xtreme-jumps.eu/warnings.php its says Insulting
My history is fine, thanks. Your comparison makes no sense because you can't compare the two things. Yes, it's that simple.
And you obviously didn't understand what I wrote. Again. I said that if I were a mapchecker, I might have felt offended. I am not a mapchecker, and I did not feel offended, and I also said that I might have been wrong because Frag was not. Just read.
You were speaking for yourself. I've already said that. I've also already told you, twice, why I think this is a bad idea. And so have others in this thread. It's not my fault you can't accept the fact that someone disagrees with you.
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