Democratic Mapchecking
23/05/2008 11:53Well, I don't exactly understand all the tech details
You don't? Well, then you needn't care.
this would kind of get rid of the element of surprise
Would it? Well, you are kind of underlining the quote above.
The reason I enjoy map releases is that I can play entirely new maps
You are not included into the system! You have not mapped a kz-tagged map yet. So you needn't care!
And if people decide not to download the maps exactly because they don't want to spoil themselves, then there's no point in a public check
Oh yeah sure. That's what I call to have an option! In the current system you Do Not have the option to have an impact on the mapchecking progess.
I think the mapchecking admins do a great job
In fact, they do! If you've read all my text would have come to the conclusion that I'm not offending admins purposely.
I am trieng to get the community one step further to a more autonomous and democrativ community. That's all!
And if you want to abdicate from your responsibilities.. do so! But then don't participate in this thread.
Your comparison to Germany makes absolutely no sense
Ok, you do not seem to know a lot about history and politics I see. Of course this comparison was assumptive, but yet it was effective. You (the people) either want to be lead or you (the people) want to lead. If you want to be lead, again, don't take part in this discussion.
You don't have to get all defensive
Oh, needn't I? You're taking this thread's severity. Of course I get pissed and defensive!
Yes, it's that simple
Ok, that's worth a warning I guess. I Did Not create this thread because I was bored but for the reasons mentioned a thousand times by now.
It's not my fault you can't accept the fact that someone disagrees with you
Oh, I can!.. I like the way sj^ answered. As well as the way _LcR did. He maybe was short on words but yet a thousand times more worth reading than what you've brought.
And finally: What the hell is you problem about democratic systems?
23/05/2008 14:17OK, Dalai. I have no idea why I wrote that comment. AND I swear I never read anything about it only being mappers with an accepted KZ-map that could check them. So either you edited your text after I first read through it, or I must have skipped that part somehow(very unlikely)
Anyways, I won't discuss with you anymore now, because you're getting all pumped up over small things like that, I also believe you are immature.
23/05/2008 14:39I did not edit a single word.
What if people starts to create multiple accounts for making votes on their map? Is there any security which makes that impossible?
Another point is the lack of knowledge a normal kz player has. The mapcheckadmins find bugs and stuff no one else can find except they r very skilled in mapping. The mapchecking team consist of people who knows what the kz/custom tags requires. Their words should remain the only words.
There is also already a forum where people can tell their thoughts about maps. When i want to show a new map I've created i always give a link where you can download the map. The reason is because i want to know what people think about my map.
But they never use to find any texture bugs or lightning bugs because the main thing theyre looking at is the theme and how hard it is.
I dont like your idea. I think maybe you can add more experienced mapping people to the matchecking group but normal players shouldnt be able to vote for coming maps. I trust the mapchecking team and i think everyone should do it.
23/05/2008 16:39I do like this idea, when I heard it's only mappers with experience and knowledge (accepted KZ)
But I'm already doing this. I let some of the people on #mappers test my map and give their thoughts about it.
More people with knowledge = better map imo ;)
23/05/2008 17:35(edited 23/05/2008 17:36)
Another point is the lack of knowledge a normal kz player has.
ARE YOU SERIOUS?
First post:
There will be a section called "Public Mapchecking" that is available to everyone who has created an accepted map yet
Answering posts:
Maybe I expressed my self a little unclearly. It's only available to those who have yet mapped a map that was accepted as a KZ map!
And Once And For All:
Only Mappers who have mapped a map that was assigned as a KZ_ map will have acces to this area and features.
First of all only mappers who have mapped a map that was accepted as a KZ_ map will gain acces to this possiblities.
You are not included into the system! You have not mapped a kz-tagged map yet. So you needn't care!
The Mip-Area is only available to people who have submitted a map to XJ that was assigned as a kz_ map!
23/05/2008 21:18Dalai, you should calm down with this shit. And stop using those "big" words, to sound smart. IMO I find this a little bit confusing, and there's not really any need for it. Seems kind of "overkill".
The only thing I find strange besides that, is that you only want mappers that's got a map with kz_ tag on the list to check the maps. Why wouldn't it also be jumpers without any mapping experience?
They sure know if the jumps are fun, and probably a lot more also! Who cares if there's too many lightbugs, if the map is fun to jump? Some of the best maps out there have 10 times as many bugs as many of the new maps, that's boring to jump.
*waiting for attack*
Originally posted by s1ghWell, I don't exactly understand all the tech details
You don't? Well, then you needn't care.
I meant that I don't know the technical stuff, with the sprites and whatnot, because I'm not any kind of expert on that. Just because of that I am not allowed to post my opinion?
Originally posted by s1ghthis would kind of get rid of the element of surprise
Would it? Well, you are kind of underlining the quote above.
What the hell is the connection between what I said here and what I said above?
Originally posted by s1ghThe reason I enjoy map releases is that I can play entirely new maps
You are not included into the system! You have not mapped a kz-tagged map yet. So you needn't care!
You just don't understand my point. Maybe I was unclear about this, but I was just placing myself in the mappers' shoes. I was thinking that IF I was a mapper I would not want to participate in this because it would ruin the fun of playing new maps. THAT IS JUST MY OPINION.
Originally posted by s1ghAnd if people decide not to download the maps exactly because they don't want to spoil themselves, then there's no point in a public check
Oh yeah sure. That's what I call to have an option! In the current system you Do Not have the option to have an impact on the mapchecking progess.
You're right, "I" do get to have an option, but what I've been trying to tell you is that this is pointless, because it would add nothing to the quality of the maps, nor would it necessarily change the maps that are chosen to be accepted. And if you still want to go with the whole government structure bullshit, I could tell you that there is no government that is not corrupt at all, and it is absolutely impossible to avoid having the maps spread. It is possible to keep it under control when few people have access to the maps, but if your "system" is accepted, there will be too many to enforce it.
Originally posted by s1ghI think the mapchecking admins do a great job
In fact, they do! If you've read all my text would have come to the conclusion that I'm not offending admins purposely.
I am trieng to get the community one step further to a more autonomous and democrativ community. That's all!
And if you want to abdicate from your responsibilities.. do so! But then don't participate in this thread.
Wow, how much nonsense can you pack into a couple of sentences? First of all, I already told you: "And you obviously didn't understand what I wrote. Again. I said that if I were a mapchecker, I might have felt offended. I am not a mapchecker, and I did not feel offended, and I also said that I might have been wrong because Frag was not. Just read."
Second of all, you need to wake up man. This is just an internet forum. I don't have any responsibilities to "abdicate" from, because I joined this community because I like kz, not because I felt that I had responsibility over the community...
Originally posted by s1ghYour comparison to Germany makes absolutely no sense
Ok, you do not seem to know a lot about history and politics I see. Of course this comparison was assumptive, but yet it was effective. You (the people) either want to be lead or you (the people) want to lead. If you want to be lead, again, don't take part in this discussion.
Now you're just being an ignorant brat. You know nothing about me, or about how much I know. It was not "effective" at all, it was just stupid. You're comparing an internet community to a country. That's the same thing as me saying that a pig is the same as a horse because they both have legs.
Originally posted by s1ghYou don't have to get all defensive
Oh, needn't I? You're taking this thread's severity. Of course I get pissed and defensive!
I don't even understand what you're saying. I don't think anyone has said "needn't I?" since the 17th century, and I don't know how it's possible to "take severity". I'm not trying to diss you, but seriously, if you try to sound smart at least know what you're saying.
Originally posted by s1ghYes, it's that simple
Ok, that's worth a warning I guess. I Did Not create this thread because I was bored but for the reasons mentioned a thousand times by now.
Look, it's not like I care about having a stupid little sign next to my name, but you're just acting like a little kid. How on EARTH does what I said deserve a warning? Completely ridiculous...
Originally posted by s1ghIt's not my fault you can't accept the fact that someone disagrees with you
Oh, I can!.. I like the way sj^ answered. As well as the way _LcR did. He maybe was short on words but yet a thousand times more worth reading than what you've brought.
And finally: What the hell is you problem about democratic systems?
Oh, but you've just been proving it over and over again in this thread. I'm not sure why you did not care about sj^ and _LcR, maybe you should ask yourself that. I think you just misunderstood my first post and decided to go on a rave. You might have misunderstood me at first, and I was trying to be reasonable, but you've shown your true colors now, and there's no going back from my point of view.
What the hell is my problem with democratic systems? Well, you see, my dream is to become a dictator and rule the world. Yes, that's it.
Oh, and by the way, read Igge's post again. He was generally right, you just decided to ignore all of his points except that one about "normal kz players". Besides, Mapcheck admins are not only good at spotting bugs and making suggestions, they're also dedicated to it.
And last thing, sorry for the overly long post, but you started the quoting sentence by sentence thing.
Dalai, i dont think u should create discussions if u cant handle them. I gave u my response and u just ignored it. But as Sigh said u picked 1 part, quoted it and now u want to argue about what i wrote.
And i dont like that ur using only quotes in ur replies. I think u should try to be more open for a friendly discussion about this. With a few changes it might be a good idea but u dont want to change anything.
And by the way, if u and sigh continue to quote each others sentences all the time i think this post will be locked soon. What will happen to ur idea then?
24/05/2008 02:48Kids...
Good bye Xtreme-Jumps!
I really spent a nice time in this communty but I guess I just kinda grew out of it... See you in another life!
And by now, as it doesnt matter anyway I'd like to give a big "Fuck you" to s1gh and his fellowmen.
Rememer my name when playing shrubhop, tho ;)
Bye!
24/05/2008 03:32Bye
I won't miss you a second due...
ill miss you dalai. i think ´the idea could have worked out pretty wel if all of you had listened to each other. but i feel like some of you didnt rly WANT to understand the opponent -.-
bb dalai hope we can keep contact :)
01/06/2008 15:23It could have, but it didn't.
stfu wrath, no one gives a flying fuck if you'll miss him or not. He had an idea and you shit all over it.
01/06/2008 18:26(edited 01/06/2008 19:07)Interesting idea but I see a lot of problems:
If you want a democratic system EVERYONE needs to have access to the maps. Your idea about every mapper getting access wouldn't be democratic btw; just making the mapcheck team a lot of bigger.
Also... the major problem within the mapcheck team is activity. I promise you... with a bigger team 90% of the ppl would play the GOOD maps and comment on them and leave the "bad" maps besides.
And even if we had a bigger team im almost certain 90% of the mappers wouldn't bother to add such features like special sprites to their map ^^
A lot of mapper refuse to make changes on their map once the map is "done" (pretty fustrating for the mapcheckers :p), so more eyes/testers wouldn't change the outcome.
Most of the maps are changed during the mapcheck process tho. If everyone of them would be posted in the public there would be a lot of different versions floating around I guess. If the map gets denied SOME ppl would run it on their servers anyway, so there would more inofficial kz_ maps out there :/
If you want to be lead, again,
The kz_ thing was never a democratic one. Back in the good old days there wasn't even a team or basic rules (like x releases a month)... it was all up to Kreedz's mood and schedule. Every maprelease came very surprising and felt like christmas.
So I guess with all the changes made (team, regular mapreleases, accepted/denied mapcheck thread) we found a quite nice solution that is working and quite fair. Of course it could be better, but the question is if it would still work. I doubt that tbh.
---
However, some parts of this idea are going to happen in the future.
There will be VIP exclusive Maptest sessions, so we get more eyes on the maps and the chances get bigger that big shortcuts are discovered. The mapcheck team is not SUPPOSED to betatest the map and find every single bug. We judge the quality of the map and see if it's good for the kz_ tag or good for the record seciton (custom maps). Once a map is submitted the beta testing should be long done by the mapper or some of his friends.
The system will be VIP exclusive because the VIP's are commonly ppl that care about the community and contribute to keep it alive and can be trusted. At the other hand they "fear" to get banned, probably more than the average user, because they either spend money or contributed in another way and got something to "lose". If you don't wanna spend money to support XJ you can earn VIP by winning events or making acccepted kz_/custom maps. The system will be updated and expended soon.
The maps are going to be posted at the VIP forum and private maptest sessions will be held at the PW protected Cupserver. Every VIP is welcome to join and find as many bugs/glitches as possible.
Hope that the ideas will work and improve the system.
---
P.S: Dalai... no offense but you seem to be pretty immature in this discussion. If you can't stand other opinions you shouldn't start a discussion too :/
01/06/2008 20:24Hey!
I want at least to give a final statement because this thread still matters me in a way. Don't want to leave being called "imature".
I simply got frustrated because of low quality answeres. (And because I got a stupid "warning" sign. I did not find that appropriate to give a longtime member a warning sign for just a single slip-off.)
I'd have never ever replied to your posting in a offensive way (faker).
You at least state an opinion, Reasonably!
I absolutly agree on that point having a lot of different map versions going around on the internet. Absolutly. I also agree on the point of inactivity ("Ein großer Haufen ist ein fauler Haufen" ;) ).
So never mind, I won't work on this idea any longer and I'm glad to see that some of my ideas finally had potential. thanks.
02/06/2008 00:47(edited 02/06/2008 00:48)btw... I didnt say you ARE immature, I just said some of your posts were immature, esp. the insult!
because I got a stupid "warning" sign. I did not find that appropriate to give a longtime member a warning sign for just a single slip-off.
You fight for democratic votes but when it comes to warnings you think that oldschool people should stand above the "law"?
Nobody stands above the law at XJ, even our cupadmin bl1zZ got a warning for speaking german in the chatbox some months ago.
P.S: I'm said if are going to leave us, I appreciated you as a nice mapper and your engagement for the community (this thread for example).
Cheers
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