About spr1n's demo on kz_cg_wigbl0ck
10/12/2009 14:50(edited 10/12/2009 14:51)There's already been a thread about this but since it didn't turn out as a childish war I'm gonna keep it opened.
First of all, spr1n is rather oldschool, he started kz a bit after me, have you already seen an oldschooler cheating?
Don't tell me "tarGet" because it's not a good example, he cheated at his beginnings but got busted long time after...
Secondly, I used to be a rather good Jumpbugger, 2 years ago or more I don't remember exactly, thanks to who?
NumB.
I just couldn't make one jumpbug, he taught it to me and after a day of pure geeking, I was able to make JBs really easily and very often, from short and high heights. That day I recorded kz_ep_gigablock_b01.
Of course it's impossible to see what frame you need to press this key or that another key, but do you need to see something to make it?
It's just a matter of feeling, you got it or not.
Just a very simple example: try bhopping eyes closed.
Easy as hell, even without sound, as I said it's only about timing and feeling!
It seems spr1n geeked 3 weeks for this WR, this explains everything...
10/12/2009 15:16(edited 10/12/2009 15:20)First of all, where did you get the information that the human eye can only see 24 frames each second? I refuse to believe that, and I don't think the eye works exactly like CS...
Look, I agree that jumpbug takes some luck, but it is not solely based on luck. Like ndR said, it's a matter of feeling, like a lot of other things in kz.
I don't think spr1n can do jbs 100/100, and he has never said that he can do them every time. He said:
"even I practice JBs for a long time now, Im not not a super human, and its not close to 9/10 even for easy JBs"
There is a certain matter of luck involved, but it is absolutely not impossible to train it.
People used to talk about how far from the ground you must release duck if you want a jb. Now it's about frames? I don't know what to believe...
@Dragon: It was a lame example, I wasn't comparing that to doing 3 jbs in a run, I was just using his logic.
"My own feeling.. 1JB~30-50 trys.."
10/12/2009 15:33Originally posted by puppetzPeople used to talk about how far from the ground you must release duck if you want a jb. Now it's about frames? I don't know what to believe...
NumB used to talk about both ^^
I don't wanna say bullshits anyway, the best would be that he comes here and makes a small statement about that :D
Originally posted by puppetzFirst of all, where did you get the information that the human eye can only see 24 frames each second? I refuse to believe that, and I don't think the eye works exactly like CS...
Look, I agree that jumpbug takes some luck, but it is not solely based on luck. Like ndR said, it's a matter of feeling, like a lot of other things in kz.
I don't think spr1n can do jbs 100/100, and he has never said that he can do them every time. He said:
"even I practice JBs for a long time now, Im not not a super human, and its not close to 9/10 even for easy JBs"
There is a certain matter of luck involved, but it is absolutely not impossible to train it.
People used to talk about how far from the ground you must release duck if you want a jb. Now it's about frames? I don't know what to believe...
@Dragon: It was a lame example, I wasn't comparing that to doing 3 jbs in a run, I was just using his logic.
"My own feeling.. 1JB~30-50 trys.."
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
and if its not about the fps, but "how far from the ground" why don't u try to do JB with 20 fps ? its almost impossible...
and the talking about fps/velocity/releasing ducks was cuz I wanted to correct Pulsar!
Originally posted by puppetzSo, it will take me at least 100 tries to do a 250+ lj. Then everyone in the LJ records must be cheating? :o
I don't really see your logic... Besides jumpbugs depend a lot on your vertical speed, so you cant just say that you will make 1 jumpbug out of 30 tries no matter what.
bad example.. i doubt most of the lj records were made in 30 or even 50 attempts, and they are not doing 256x3, which would be extremely hard too, like pulsar is saying 3xjb is.
I'm not good at all at jump bugging and I did 1 jb in 5 minutes of geeking with ctrl key and I've heard it was a lot easier doing it with scroll , I'm almost sure that like lj ,cj edgebugs and so on , if you waste enough time on jump bugging you can feel them too
Originally posted by TlofTOriginally posted by puppetzSo, it will take me at least 100 tries to do a 250+ lj. Then everyone in the LJ records must be cheating? :o
I don't really see your logic... Besides jumpbugs depend a lot on your vertical speed, so you cant just say that you will make 1 jumpbug out of 30 tries no matter what.
bad example.. i doubt most of the lj records were made in 30 or even 50 attempts, and they are not doing 256x3, which would be extremely hard too, like pulsar is saying 3xjb is.
how is that example bad? It's exactly the same - for puppetz, jumping 250 is hard, for Pulsar, doing 3jbs in a row is hard - since Pulsar thinks that 3jbs can be done only with a cheat, puppetz can also think that jumping 250+ is possible with cheats only, yeah? I've said it many times - you think that just because 3jbs is not usual.. it's the same that i'm suspecting everyone that jumps a 256 block.. it's impossible for me and i think everyone that have jumped it is a fucking cheater.
Originally posted by opaWell, one thing I understand - spr1n is obviously using some unusual way to do JBs easier... Doesn't matter if it's legit or not, the fact is that THAT way gives him (unfair) advantage amongst other players
best comment ever, Close the thread!
remake you didn't read the whole thing.. he equated a single 255 to a single jb in his ratio, just as pulsar had said, its a low possibility. so to then do 3x, is astronomical, the same as doing 3x255 like i said
Not cheated , end of story ! to bad that I cant close a thread huh ;)
10/12/2009 21:00Originally posted by TlofTremake you didn't read the whole thing.. he equated a single 255 to a single jb in his ratio, just as pulsar had said, its a low possibility. so to then do 3x, is astronomical, the same as doing 3x255 like i said
For the second time, I was only using his logic. One of his first "arguments" that spr1n was cheating was that he could only do a single jb 1/30, but spr1n could do 3 in a run. What he based that 1/30 on was his feeling, and therefore I might as well say that people who can do 256 lj are cheating 'cause I can't even do 250 in 100 tries, and therefore 256 lj must be impossible.
It's just a really bad "argument".
Originally posted by puppetzOne of his first "arguments" that spr1n was cheating was that he could only do a single jb 1/30, but spr1n could do 3 in a run. What he based that 1/30 on was his feeling, and therefore I might as well say that people who can do 256 lj are cheating 'cause I can't even do 250 in 100 tries, and therefore 256 lj must be impossible.
It's just a really bad "argument".
Man, as you asked i posted some arguments after. Why you ignored it ?
10/12/2009 21:33Originally posted by GrrrOriginally posted by puppetzFirst of all, where did you get the information that the human eye can only see 24 frames each second? I refuse to believe that, and I don't think the eye works exactly like CS...
Look, I agree that jumpbug takes some luck, but it is not solely based on luck. Like ndR said, it's a matter of feeling, like a lot of other things in kz.
I don't think spr1n can do jbs 100/100, and he has never said that he can do them every time. He said:
"even I practice JBs for a long time now, Im not not a super human, and its not close to 9/10 even for easy JBs"
There is a certain matter of luck involved, but it is absolutely not impossible to train it.
People used to talk about how far from the ground you must release duck if you want a jb. Now it's about frames? I don't know what to believe...
@Dragon: It was a lame example, I wasn't comparing that to doing 3 jbs in a run, I was just using his logic.
"My own feeling.. 1JB~30-50 trys.."
http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm
and if its not about the fps, but "how far from the ground" why don't u try to do JB with 20 fps ? its almost impossible...
and the talking about fps/velocity/releasing ducks was cuz I wanted to correct Pulsar!
Let's forget that eye fps thing for good. That website you just linked says:
Seeing framewise is simply not the way how the eye\brain system works.
Eye has no fps! Boom! I'm out.
Originally posted by puppetzPeople used to talk about how far from the ground you must release duck if you want a jb. Now it's about frames? I don't know what to believe...
Well it's basically the same thing. The max height you must be off the ground depends on the speed but it doesn't change the fact that you are still hitting the key in the last frame. So I don't think horizontal speed matters here, it all comes down to timing within the 0.01 seconds.
The question is can you practice the timing to make it with high probability? No idea but I'm pretty open minded about it and I'd like to see someone pwning that timer link for example :)
Originally posted by puppetz..and therefore I might as well say that people who can do 256 lj are cheating 'cause I can't even do 250 in 100 tries, and therefore 256 lj must be impossible.
It's just a really bad "argument".
No, you don't get it. As i said before your comparison is not correct. Luck does not affect on longjumps, it is "trainable" technique. The question of how long and how constantly you will jumps is the question fo your skill and tallent.
But JB does not require any tallent or skill, it is a poor luck and because of that it is "untranable technique".
Take a card batch, chose one card, for example, ten of diamonds. Now blend the cards and pick out one card. The posibility what it is exactly ten of diamonds is 1/52.
The posibility to do this trick 2 times in a row is
1/2704, 3 times in a row 1/140608 and so on..
Even if you will try it for an years, you can't improve this chance, it is "untranable". Like JBs can't be trained.
Some poker players can "read" an oponents and know what exactly cards they have, and this skill of reading can be trained. Like longjumps can be trained.
HOW do you know that jumpbugging is not trainable..? Where the fuck do you get these facts? eDark already said he's clean and as soon as you have no proof except your "i think" and "i feel" you really shouldn't suspect somebody in cheating.
Originally posted by RemaKe`HOW do you know that jumpbugging is not trainable..? Where the fuck do you get these facts? eDark already said he's clean and as soon as you have no proof except your "i think" and "i feel" you really shouldn't suspect somebody in cheating.
Are you blinded ? Read my posts. You repeats it again and again. I allready posted some arguments. Why you ignored it ?
Originally posted by Pulsar!Originally posted by puppetz..and therefore I might as well say that people who can do 256 lj are cheating 'cause I can't even do 250 in 100 tries, and therefore 256 lj must be impossible.
It's just a really bad "argument".
No, you don't get it. As i said before your comparison is not correct. Luck does not affect on longjumps, it is "trainable" technique. The question of how long and how constantly you will jumps is the question fo your skill and tallent.
But JB does not require any tallent or skill, it is a poor luck and because of that it is "untranable technique".
Take a card batch, chose one card, for example, ten of diamonds. Now blend the cards and pick out one card. The posibility what it is exactly ten of diamonds is 1/52.
The posibility to do this trick 2 times in a row is
1/2704, 3 times in a row 1/140608 and so on..
Even if you will try it for an years, you can't improve this chance, it is "untranable". Like JBs can't be trained.
Some poker players can "read" an oponents and know what exactly cards they have, and this skill of reading can be trained. Like longjumps can be trained.
ur wrong cos jb is trainable, cos when i started trying jbs on gigablock, i started getting better as i tried it more and more.. its not like lj cos in lj theres like no luck at all..in lj its like 5% luck and 95% skill...
whereas in jb theres luck and skill. kinda like 50/50 but its still trainable.i hope u understand wat im trying to say :)
Originally posted by sDM'ur wrong cos jb is trainable, cos when i started trying jbs on gigablock, i started getting better as i tried it more and more.. its not like lj cos in lj theres no luck.
in jb theres luck and skill.
Oh, okey. May be. But luck for jumbuging is much more importrant than a skill.. Like 10% skill and 90% luck. May be you can improve posibility do a JB from 1/50 to 1/30.. But you can't keep improving it, there is a limit.
jb 60% skill 40% luck
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