?
being able to understand a decent level of english has nothing to do with being able to write a _decent_ level of english....
@ ali & koki: stop trying to fuel a rage session against a3tius. if you can't read italic, then don't read his posts.
PS: @ lagster: koukouz has got a point there... hopefully you do get the true meaning of his point, instead of thinking he's flaming you...
25/08/2010 20:16Horribly written but I understand it, ignorance.
I get banned because of the aggressive nature behind my posts and I can understand it completely, but your ignorant to the people that actually agree which more often than not, they do. If both of you weren't so naive to pure logic you would have no ground to stand on, why are you arguing with me again kkz? Because I blame some of the staff on this site for mistakes? Is that your overall argument because if so it is completely misguided, let me know though yeah?
That's just how it goes, couple of people agree and then BAM, a big member/Admin jumps in and comes up with excuses or a 'better' answer, which ofc people won't fight against because they don't want to be in my position, which is understandable but at least I know that SOME of this site are able to think objectively, at least before the cavalry arrives..
@Boom: I would of thought that when the whole idea behind a forum cleanup was to improve the professional image of XJ, that maybe some more effort would be put into posting news in proper and clean cut English, because you guys still ban people for not speaking it on the forums, XJ has always been consistent in its English, so if you want to look professional to sponsors why wouldn't you start looking into putting someone to work that can proofread, or at least fix up the horrible excuse for English that is sometimes seen within the news posts. How is that argument debatable? You guys want to look professional yet you focus on the forums rather than the frontcover and first impressions on your site, go on kkz, tell me why I'm wrong?
25/08/2010 22:17(edited 25/08/2010 22:27)Says the guy correcting people's grammar but mistaking "you're" for "your", right? Right.
You are simply unable to respect other opinions if they don't match yours. My english is perfectly understandable and doubtfully grammatically incorrect, I guess. Anyway, you should try to read what people say instead of trying to find some hidden message in what they say.
You're on the edge, soon enough admins and other people won't even read what you say, except for the people following you blindly with "+1 Lagster", "That's right, Lagster", and so on.
Your arguments prove you're barely reading what me, faker and other admins say, you're just trying to counter-argument us without even actually understanding what we mean.
Admin talking down on the community? Not at all. But you must agree that for being an admin, we (the admins) have precious knowledge about the future that you surely lack for being a regular user, right? Not every single one of our plans is public, and it must remain this way. There's a professional layer between users and admins, don't confuse it with the non-existing social layer.
Oh, yes, about the Weekly. I tried contacting A3T!U$ (a week or so ago) to help on the grammar thing, but kinda failed.
Now, try reading and theeen answering.
26/08/2010 02:42Where did I correct any mistakes LOL I knew some one would point out my mistakes, we are talking about news posts and you're telling me off for a couple of errors in my casual forum post, that's the problem XJ, hit the nail on the head haha.
26/08/2010 03:34(edited 26/08/2010 03:37)Saying the Weekly's got grammar problems and whatever. And there you go again, making a big deal out of everything.
26/08/2010 03:44No I actually think its great that you agreed
Cheers sunshine.
That's why I doubt that a stricter interpretation of the rules can be considered as "faking" quality tbh.
Yeah, you're probably right... we kinda exaggerated with 'faking' quality, it's a bad formulation of my thoughts. What I was trying to say is that I was a bit afraid that you wanted to change the identity of the community too drastically. Because like I said, if the majority of this community are 12-year old people then you should let them be and act like 12-year old people because that's what this community is. You can't change its users, nor its personality. I got the feeling you tried to suggest that because we need more sponsors.
That's the difference between a normal community and an official community imo. In a normal community, the founders can decide everything... Who can join, how the community should look like, when to quit, more a funcommunity or more serious... everything is determined by its leaders, how they want it. But in this case it's different in my opinion because you guys are representing us. It's not your community but it's ours. You can't decide when to pull out the plug where normal (fun) communities got that right. So like I said before, this community is what it is, you can't make 12 year olds to act 18+ and since this community should be respresenting its users... you can't do much about it...
But now I'm talking about situations like where you would decide there are no more funtopics allowed. Because, for example, you (faker) want more serious topics because that's your personal taste. Then we're changing the community to the community that you want. But that's not the goal of this community is it? It's an official community so it should be representing its users. But of course that's never going to happen, what I just gave as an example was very radical but I hope you got some kind of message out of it.
But like you said, you didn't do anything weird or wrong. You just deleted the obviously spam and offensive comments so I think there is nothing wrong with that. It's definitely a good thing but I wonder if the time you all have put into the cleanup was really worth it? Is the value added from the cleanup enough to compensate for the time you've put into it? Because I know you guys are really busy so there are probably a hundred other things you could have done in the meanwhile.
What I'm most afraid of is the poll. It looks like it's going to be repeated in the future? A periodical action? But the cleanup is actually a proof that there is something wrong because those comments that you deleted, should have never been there in the first place. So a cleanup should never be a durable solution. I hope you guys don't decide to let everything go out of hand again for a few months and then have a cleanup again. But I hope that's not the answer you are trying to find in the poll.
Yeah, I admit it's hard to find a good "definition" for forum quality or quality posts and that it will be hard to find the balance.
True, it's hard to define in words what SPAM is and what isn't. But like you said, everyone should know what is appropriate and what's not. 'lol' in a discussion thread should get a warning (without a doubt), 'lol' in a joke thread is completely normal. Plus, any warned person who is going to whine about that should get a 1 week ban because he's wasting valuable time lol.
@Lagster
I understand your frustration, I really do and you must know it. But I have to tell you that you should really be less agressive and offensive in your comments. I know that you want to help (for 100% sure) but do you really think they are going to take you serious when you act (so agressive) like that?
Do you believe that there is going to change anything? Or is going to be any progression if you talk like that? Even if you got legit points and even if you got a real message, it's useless when its presentation sucks, we all know that, right Vee? Hahah just joking. But again, I understand your frustration, you tried being the friendly guy, you tried being the helpful guy, it all didn't work, you might have been ignored and you might have got no respect at all but this isn't going to work neither. If you want to get any progression, you need to start from a neutral position with a good atmosphere and atm the atmosphere between you and most admins is fucked up. Anything you say goes through critical eyes, waiting to attack. We're not playing the ball anymore, we're just playing the guy. Just trust me on this, I'm from Belgium, my government is fucked up because they can't talk with each other.
That's sad because I really believe both of you are here to improve this community. But I think the personal shields are active at the moment. In order to make any progression we shouldn't see each other as enemies but as allies, and at the moment that's not the case. Even I got that know.
@Admins, Vee, ....
Lagster is really only trying to help, it might not always look like it but he really does. The fact that ChrizZo (publicly) and a lot of other admins (privately) support some of the points he made proves that he got legit points and legit frustrations. You really shoud give more credit to some people. The fact is, you never going to like criticism, it's never going to be a gift. It's almost impossible to give criticism and make you guys happy at the same time, of course you are not going to like it, it will always look bad but it helps more than hugs and kisses. Also, some people should really stop acting like they are more worth than anyone else, or should get more respect than someone else. Don't forget, every opinion is equal in a democracy. It's just disgusting when you write a whole book to help and then get a blank response. Then you got the feeling you first need to record 50 demo's in order to get a reaction... I wish, I really wish I was t3dbundy for 10 secs, atleast someone would listen then. :D
One more thing to explain why it also gets so personal and agressive. In a discussion it's all about the arguments, but I got the feeling that it's all about the person/name/status here. If you got the name, you won. So you guys make it personal... instead of just arguing, there is no harm in that....
Who were giving all the arguments? Who were giving all the examples to backup those arguments? Who responded to every fucking single sentence?
- And who responded to 10%? And who called the other side 'flamers'? Who were writing 3 sentences in a response to 100 sentences? If you guys are so sure you're right then it shouldn't be hard to put it into words? One word 'flamer' is not going to help. I heard someone wanted to know how we can make lagster shut up. Well, I'll tell you the answer. Tell him why he is wrong, based on logic arguments like he did. Can't be that hard if he's wrong?
26/08/2010 05:43(edited 26/08/2010 06:05)I appreciate your point Jinx, and as you pointed out I did try and approach the situation without aggression but, as you also pointed out frustration got the better of me. I am done with trying to help, I still feel SOME of the admins are too thick headed to understand anything I've said and resort to calling me a troll or something amazing to be honest, because my suggestions post is SUCH a great troll/joke, well done to those who picked it! not. (my jokes are almost as good as Vee's) anyhow I couldn't care less anymore, at least half of the admins have told me (even in private) that they agree with the major points of change I made, even if they are too scared to go up against Vee and AETIUS and thats enough for me, if XJ wants to focus on the forums and birthday notifications because they are volunteers, while overpowering any objective thought weather it be aggressive or not, then so be it.
Lets wait and see another post about how I'm immature and my spelling is incorrect, because I'm always contradicting myself yeah guys?
Edit: found this quite interesting actually;
I decided to go through and have a look for all the people ‘I begged’ to accept my ideas, this is obviously a generalization but I found it pretty interesting to see who overall agreed with what I was saying as opposed to those that didn’t, also found it pretty funny to see the percentage of admins in the overall disagree list. I have left out those 13 that PM’d me scared to get into a flame war or debate on the forums (not fair for me to post their names) and if you do think I’m an absolute idiot, feel free to post below and tell me how stupid my ideas are (those that are staying out of it). Anyway AETIUS, here it is mate, begging for acceptance right? Yeah sick man.
Agree: TlofT, Pizza (admin), Akkord, Vamp, Jinx, NOEL, Punk (admin), Chrizzo (admin), V0nch, Aftermatch, Nsp1re, VodkaBoy, aCTEPukC|1337, Ali, Kunqui, Zhady
Disagree: koukouz, Vee (admin), Juleeh (admin), plague (admin), AETIUS (admin), Boom.dll (admin)
Objective (presented viable excuses): Faker (admin)
Yeah well done heroes, I wouldn’t expect anything less to be honest, its fine to be defensive but really? I mean even boom.dll and juleeh on the disagree list still looked into my thoughts properly unlike the others, but as AETIUS and Vee clearly said, my points are all wrong because I’m aggressive and flaming.
But koukouz is right obviously also, I’m just trolling etc.
where exactly did I disagree with you? and how the fuck can you call people that post "yeah Lagster's right" as supporters of your cause?
nsp1re just flamed, actepukc's post was absolutely spot on, same with v0nch's post (even tho it had nothing to do with what you said)......
i'm not gonna post in this thread again. you are _WAY_ too stubborn... you're so set up on proving admins are not good that all the purpose of this thread is lost...
I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS WHEN PEOPLE AGREE WITH YOU :O .... cause thats what's important on this forum...
Good luck with your suggestions! ;)
26/08/2010 08:26It's not that important, its actually the people taking shots at me that are blowing it out of proportion.
Comments like I beg for acceptance is ridiculous, I use logic.
You did actually agree with some of my posts boom, so lets add you to the agree list, that doesn't change anything, if ANYTHING it helps what I'm trying to say.
26/08/2010 10:00I agree with boom.dll and koukouz, it's impossible to hold a healthy discussion because any point against you turns into how stupid we are (please don't message saying "where did I say anyone was stupid?").
My last post in this thread. If you wanna talk, I suggest finding me @ #Xtreme-Jumps.
Originally posted by VeeNot every single one of our plans is public, and it must remain this way.
I have only one question: why? Maybe if you release some projects to public you will get contribution from non-admins? Have a try - my suggestion.
@Lagster: I have nothing more to say that I support the suggestions you made in the thread you mentioned. But this war leads to nothing imo.. Here I can partly agree with Vee: If you want to help the community then don't post suggestions but start helping admins (volunteer, if you want).
26/08/2010 10:59No, boom managed to discuss my ideas quite viably, and fakers response in this thread is the most professional and logical explanation for the cleanup from the staff. So no, I do not agree with that statement Vee.
@ VoDkA`BoY
You can continue wondering for another week
[blockquote]This from the guy that said 'Why can't we go back to how it was 5 years ago' You weren't even around 5 years ago mate. Just back off ffs.[/blockquote]
I think every member can always navigate to older forums and newsposts and can get the vibe of XJ 5 years back. Ofc I expected to get the same from you since you are one of the oldest active members of XJ.
[blockquote]A3T!U$ why you even edited your post from something like "Are you high? XD" to "Am surprised."?[/blockquote]
My sincere apologies. For a moment there I lost my cool (which was obvious cuz am myself a newbie (or n00b as you'd say) as far as the kz skills are concerned and I can identify myself with the other newbies. I think "talking down to the community members" doesnt fit coming from a guy like me). Reverted back in order to avoid a meaningless flamewar and bridging the communication gap btwn me and the concerned person.
[blockquote]i had to paste every post you wrote into notepad.exe in order to read it properly. i hope it's not your desire to discriminate such ppl like me with italic-dyslexia[/blockquote]
Nope, discrimination is not my cup pf tea. And am grateful that you took the pain to go through my posts. Probably this one's the last time, and in italics :)
[blockquote]The italic thing is some sweet admin thing so he can become known, since he start posting last week.[/blockquote]
I used to write in italics even before I became an admin. And as far as becoming known is concerned, I should have quit writing in italics now going by your logic.
[blockquote]Because people started throwing accusations instead of suggestions...[/blockquote]
Primarily that's the reason I think I am trying my level best to refrain from personal attacks and meaningless flamewars. But ya, am human and I do have my weak moments. My apologies for the same.
[blockquote]yet the weekly and news-posts are grammatically incorrect[/blockquote]
Its an earnest request that you point out the same. Dont get me wrong and misinterpret this statement as a challenge or something. I am prone to mistakes and would be more than happy to correct myself (better late than never) and at the same time try and never making those same mistakes in future.
[blockquote]even if they are too scared to go up against Vee and AETIUS[/blockquote]
Now that's hilarious. But seriously ?? Am amongst the newest admin with no WRs and practically no (or minimal) contribution to the community, leave alone the fact that am not yet a donator. Why on earth would anyone be afraid of me, knowing that I have no powers absolutely (not that if I had powers I'd have misused it). I get every point, but this one seriously is beyond my reach.
[blockquote]but as AETIUS and Vee clearly said, my points are all wrong because I’m aggressive and flaming[/blockquote]
I seriously "beg" you to go through my earlier posts to clear out your misconception. Am repeating, I am not against your views, I support them, or else I'd not have even bothered to post. I am just against your way of expression and not the expression itself.
[blockquote]and fakers response in this thread is the most professional and logical explanation for the cleanup from the staff.[/blockquote]
Without any doubt. But you gotta understand, all admins are not allowed to discuss the forthcoming plans and reasons preceding every action in details and in public, without the permission of the management crew. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you'd realize our (regular admins) limited (in your words "lame") responses.
PS : I dont really care what you (or as a matter of fact anyone) thinks of me. But it really is troublesome when I try to make friends and have fun over the site whilst I get entangled in meaningless and pointless conversations and end up with enemies. Probably it's gonna be one of my last posts. Hope you get what you want. If you need anything and think I could be of any help, lemme know by pm. I'd be more thn happy to help anytime.
GL n HF !!!
26/08/2010 11:57Originally posted by I RUSSIA!Originally posted by VeeNot every single one of our plans is public, and it must remain this way.
I have only one question: why? Maybe if you release some projects to public you will get contribution from non-admins? Have a try - my suggestion.
When the "maybe" comes to our minds, we ask people what they think, hehe. Don't take it wrong, some plans are just meant to be internal. :)
Now that's hilarious. But seriously ?? Am amongst the newest admin with no WRs and practically no (or minimal) contribution to the community, leave alone the fact that am not yet a donator. Why on earth would anyone be afraid of me, knowing that I have no powers absolutely (not that if I had powers I'd have misused it). I get every point, but this one seriously is beyond my reach.
Haha, I laughed irl because you are so right. You are completely harmless. I bet the whole crew bullies you. Each morning kicks and punches, right? :D
26/08/2010 16:39He hit the nail on the head, Jinx lol.
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