The future of new maps [POLL]
i like your (afu) idea of changing things for new maps...something SHOULD be changed
what would i add: change the criteria of acceptin maps; to explain: dunno whats today's criteria at XJ but its mostly based on DESIGN (they dont accept ugly maps, correct me if im wrong)...but its like u want a friend - who looks beautiful but he's boring as fu*k...
point: rpz_downfall, cg_arizonabhop (they arent beautiful in today's standard) but 90% people will choose and play them compared to new maps, cant remember one name sry
how i undestand, its almost the same as fantasm's idea on putting people on the server, and lets play, let players decide (+ admins)
if xj doesnt want to put more interesting maps (but last release is good example, epsecially pyramid map), other community will grab first place in kreedz, its not cosy, and you probably know which one...
Originally posted by FuZzy1Xj lowered the map standards because mappers didn't submit maps anymore, and even now with the lowered standards the number of new maps is still low, and it will be even lower in the future.
sorry fuzzy but thats far from the truth...i mean, its possible to happen, but its XJ's fault not by 'deficit of mappers or maps'
Most newbies don't want to try new maps due to two main reasons: their wr will get beaten really soon and it's also embarassing in front of their friends to try to take a "wr" on new maps without wr or on maps with overall easy wr. Basically they'd laugh at you.
Myself speaking from the point of someone who's not really a top player plus knows a lot of people of the same skill, we'd never aim for those free maps wr because it's completely pointless and embarassing. It's not motivating us, it's actually doing quite the opposite.
Of course we are not going for the hardest wr's either, but at least we are trying to find a map that has a good wr holder name behind it, have been beaten at least 2-3 times, plus its actually well optimized run and there you go a worthy record for new players.
New maps don't have that same effect on new players so they usually ignore it as well, just like top players.
I've watched closely these last few months the new 1.6 and kzmod maps that were uploaded and none of them were recorded much by pros or newcomers.
I'm not really giving a solution here to maps, I don't even think anything should be changed at all, what I'm saying is that the new maps aren't a motivational factor for new players. The motivational factor is beating a wr of a hardcore player and this will never change.
11/04/2018 12:44"Hey XJ admins, could you make a poll about new maps? Whether XJ community decides whether you stop or not allowing new maps into the map pool."
This is the main purpose of this topic, and it's just stupid. You can't play kz without kz maps, not accepting kz maps anymore is just stupid, how can someone even think of something like this?
Is like: "We have enough wrs on xj, let's stop accepting new demos"
11/04/2018 20:43(edited 11/04/2018 20:59)Originally posted by FuZzy1Now you're just talking shit... Last map release on cosy was over 1 month ago and it had only 8 maps. And 95% of those n/a maps are n/a because they are too hard to record, so not for newcomers.
As for your fear of to much maps on xj, you're safe... Xj lowered the map standards because mappers didn't submit maps anymore, and even now with the lowered standards the number of new maps is still low, and it will be even lower in the future.
Cosy last map release: April 11th (today) https://cosy-climbing.net/comment.php?comment.news.1418
February 27th https://cosy-climbing.net/comment.php?comment.news.1403
January 28th https://cosy-climbing.net/comment.php?comment.news.1391
January 11th https://cosy-climbing.net/comment.php?comment.news.1383
Those are almost 40 maps in 4 months. And yes, there are still easy maps that don't have a record after being out for months. When juhx was admin this thing was much worse, map releases were every 2 weeks or so.
I think XJ is FINE with 812 maps!! Of course we can keep adding maps but at a lower rate. A map should be worthy to be in XJ, let's stop accepting everything that is submitted. Who's got the time to watch 812 WRs? We already have maps of all kind (except for slide), why more??
Originally posted by FuZzy1"Hey XJ admins, could you make a poll about new maps? Whether XJ community decides whether you stop or not allowing new maps into the map pool."
This is the main purpose of this topic, and it's just stupid. You can't play kz without kz maps, not accepting kz maps anymore is just stupid, how can someone even think of something like this?
Is like: "We have enough wrs on xj, let's stop accepting new demos"
You can play KZ without adding new maps. Think about this: you like music and you bought 812 instruments to play with. Why keep buying more? Especially if the things you buy don't meet the standars (last map release in XJ people complained about the map quality and even about the kz_ tag not being used anymore)
"We have enough wrs on xj, let's stop accepting new demos" Of course we can't say something like that. Our objective is getting the WR page full of almost perfect WRs, records that show how we've improving since 2004. We already have some badass records. Having more maps is like to keep watering down the beverage.
11/04/2018 20:55just wait and see, there might be coming something up (cyclops and i had a talk about the future of kzmaps) ;)
11/04/2018 23:04Originally posted by afuYou can play KZ without adding new maps. Think about this: you like music and you bought 812 instruments to play with. Why keep buying more? Especially if the things you buy don't meet the standars (last map release in XJ people complained about the map quality and even about the kz_ tag not being used anymore)
"We have enough wrs on xj, let's stop accepting new demos" Of course we can't say something like that. Our objective is getting the WR page full of almost perfect WRs, records that show how we've improving since 2004. We already have some badass records. Having more maps is like to keep watering down the beverage.
And when every demo has perfect run wtf will you do then? Complain there are no new maps to record because the current maps are impossible to beat?
About the "standards", they don't mean shit. Watch what people play on public servers, 80% of maps are cosy maps, mostly under 1 min maps or 2 min max. Nobody really cares about how the map looks, only think that matters is the map has good and fun gameplay. Many of XJ maps are simply boring to jump especially those long maps...
So the mapping standards on xj should better focus on gameplay and not looks.
And the "watering down" is done by people who record maps, there are not many pro players active, and those who are still active record just maps that they want / like. So low quality of runs is not caused by new maps, it's caused by inactive top players and the lack of new players to take their place.
11/04/2018 23:34what is this bullshit :D u call demos in new maps are slow? ok they are slow but the records of old maps arent perfect and can be improved. Its about time and records will be improved in any map
12/04/2018 01:31Why the hell are you giving Cosy-climbing as a negative example? The site is more active record-wise, and that's due to new maps (and existing maps, ugly or not) that are being played and are fun. Hard, easy, bhop, slide, etc...everything is there. And i can't say that about XJ.
And fuzzy is right, even with the "lowered" standards from xj, there are less and less maps coming here.
You either trolled with this thread (afu), or didn't think this very far.
Originally posted by afuPROS OF DECLINING
I first thought about enumerating the reasons, but I'm more comfortable doing a paragraph about it. First off, XJ should be a place in which all WRs are hard to get. No exception.
WRONG!
12/04/2018 01:47(edited 12/04/2018 02:05)Originally posted by FuZzy1And when every demo has perfect run wtf will you do then? Complain there are no new maps to record because the current maps are impossible to beat?
Sorry but there's no such thing as "impossible to beat" As shooting-star said in one of his interviews, if you want it, you can get everything.
Originally posted by KeoWhy the hell are you giving Cosy-climbing as a negative example? The site is more active record-wise, and that's due to new maps (and existing maps, ugly or not) that are being played and are fun. Hard, easy, bhop, slide, etc...everything is there. And i can't say that about XJ.
And fuzzy is right, even with the "lowered" standards from xj, there are less and less maps coming here.
You either trolled with this thread (afu), or didn't think this very far.
K so quite a few things you mentioned here, I'll try to list them for you
-Cosy Climbing and XJ are 2 different communities. It is true that XJ wrs were always harder to get than Cosy's, hence why there are more WRs per release in Cc. What is ALSO true is that Cosy has 2k+ maps. Hard to not recieve demos with that amount of maps to record, right? Cosy failed in one thing: they release maps only for the sake of releasing them. I also explained that to Fuzzy in one of my posts up here but you clearly didn't even read it. Their system is: recieving a map that isn't about 10 seconds long and releasing it, and thats kind of what's happening here and what the guy with most demos in this site is against.
Originally posted by afuXJ should be a place in which all WRs are hard to get. No exception.
Originally posted by KeoWRONG!
-What you didn't understand too is that I'm not 100% against declining new maps, maybe because again, you didn't read my first post. Instead of attacking me, defend your ideas, give arguments. Shouting WRONG! without backing it up doesn't help.
Originally posted by FuErZzzZa^what is this bullshit :D u call demos in new maps are slow? ok they are slow but the records of old maps arent perfect and can be improved.
I call new maps aren't worthy of being here. The fact that their records are slow kind of botheres me but whatever, this isn't about me.
Originally posted by FuErZzzZa^
Its about time and records will be improved in any map
And no, it isn't about time. As I said earlier, records won't be improved in any map because there are almost no skilled guys interested in new maps. Consider that, if we never stop accepting maps, the amount will eventually get closer to 2k. And the Cosy example applies right there: there are demos that weren't downloaded a single time in Cc. Maps that were played 2 times by only 2 players. What makes you think in XJ the things will be different? We have, how many? 10-15 active players right now? And 812 maps. Think about keep going up. We are talking about WORLD records. WORLD. Yet nobody plays them. New maps wouldn't have challengers because of inactivity. How can it be a WORLD record?
12/04/2018 02:20Totaly agree with fuzzy,in the minute records are pushed to the limit,then what?And know your facts,3700+ maps on cc.Activity high - good.New maps are accepted because people wants something new,even if server has 2k maps,it gets boring after a while,so its only great something new is added..same principle here.People can chose what to play and what no,i dont see your problem,you dont like new maps,dont play them,or someone is holding a gun to your head?This is literaly 1st time i see that someone is against new maps.Lets say you have clothes,as we all do.you wanna use same clothes all your life?I dont,and as far i know,noone wants to wear same clothes over and over again.you understand my idea.Nothing to say here anymore.
12/04/2018 02:40(edited 12/04/2018 03:09)Originally posted by DalxinsTotaly agree with fuzzy,in the minute records are pushed to the limit,then what?And know your facts,3700+ maps on cc.Activity high - good.New maps are accepted because people wants something new,even if server has 2k maps,it gets boring after a while,so its only great something new is added..same principle here.People can chose what to play and what no,i dont see your problem,you dont like new maps,dont play them,or someone is holding a gun to your head?This is literaly 1st time i see that someone is against new maps.Lets say you have clothes,as we all do.you wanna use same clothes all your life?I dont,and as far i know,noone wants to wear same clothes over and over again.you understand my idea.Nothing to say here anymore.
So you are saying that after a while with almost 4k (!!) maps you are going to get bored?
Look at this: Shooting star has 7k 1.6 hours, but only 134 WRs. 7k hours JUST for 134 demos (obv he lost some too) but we are talking about 812 active maps. Normal play-time for a map in a pub is 25-30 min. Could be more, could be less, but just for reference.
Playing ALL XJ maps for 30 min takes you about 406 hours.
Playing ALL Cosy maps for 30 min takes you 1875 hours.
Recording time for a map can be set between 1-10 hours. Every map is different, but I'll say 6 hours as reference in XJ and 2 in Cosy.
Recording ALL XJ maps would take you 5k hours (at a rate of 6hs per WR)
Recording ALL Cosy maps would take you 7,5k hours (at a rate of 2hs per WR)
Do you think you'll get bored? If you would want to record all XJ and Cc maps you'd have to spend 625 days NON STOP playing. 2 years. How does it sound?
12/04/2018 03:24Overstatement.NOONE,i mean NOONE will be that stupid to try record all maps,playing them is another thing.yes im saying i get bored if i dont see any new maps on xj,because i have played every single map on xj,maybe there is 5 maps i havent played.Thats was the reason i quit playing for few days waiting for xj release..i got bored of same thing.Im sure im not only one.Keep em comming and everything is gonna be alright.I know this is personal for you,because noone is downloading your demos.
12/04/2018 04:17(edited 12/04/2018 04:18)Originally posted by DalxinsOverstatement.NOONE,i mean NOONE will be that stupid to try record all maps,playing them is another thing.yes im saying i get bored if i dont see any new maps on xj,because i have played every single map on xj,maybe there is 5 maps i havent played.Thats was the reason i quit playing for few days waiting for xj release..i got bored of same thing.Im sure im not only one.Keep em comming and everything is gonna be alright.I know this is personal for you,because noone is downloading your demos.
Sure, you quit playing because there were no new maps lmao. Fortunately the fresh dalxins maps are here!! Let's get XJ to play them.. oh wait, nobody do
12/04/2018 07:21I agree with afu. With 800+ maps in the map pool no one really gives a shit if you get a WR anymore. XJ should only have like 50 maps max, so it will actually impress people when someone gets a WR. Getting a WR should be an exclusive thing only pros are able to achieve. Newbs should work their way up through years of practice in order to gain respect, so when they finally get a WR on a map like kz_facility it'll feel really rewarding.
PS: WR
WR
12/04/2018 11:19(edited 12/04/2018 11:22)Oh but they do play.innactivity of xj was reason i quit playing for over a year back in 2016.Got bored of shit.Alright lets delete maplist and leave 50 best maps,i`d like to see how long xj will float above water after that.Who said wr must be hard?Real life wrs arent hard in the moment they appear,every single stupid wr in guiness book,have a history,someone discovered something and called a wr,so on and so on,they add alot things they call wr.There are million of things you can get wr on,even pancake eating,farting etc,first wr was easy for those people..beating is the hard part,same goes with xj maps.Napz,everyone can get a wr in REAL LIFE,if he/she can discover something that isnt written in guiness book yet,thats gonna be first wr for that thing,and after that comes beaters who will have hard time beating them.So i dont realy see whats the fuss about xj maps..first wr for every map was easy for people who did them (except those extreme ones,that comes with hard work).Let the newbies record new maps,make them stay on this site not leave after attempting to beat perfect wrs,like afu idea was ''all wrs must be perfect''.
12/04/2018 12:48afu, you are an idiot, that's the best argument I have right now.
12/04/2018 14:13accept the new maps, give space to new players. I agree with this idea,
BUT
the cost is so high right now. XJ is accepting hb_ and slide maps for whatever reason. most of them are not even easy for new players. there is no way any of those maps deserves or deserved kz_ tag. maybe I'm used to older maps, but those had some complexity you could rely on. maps were evolving, but now it's just sinking to a level similar to cosy mapping.
Maybe we could separate maps in 4-5 leagues, not just 2. Highest rated league would include only the hardest maps to beat (like napz said 50 or so) They will be both judged by how hard the map itself is and how fast the wr on it is.
Following this we could lower leagues with more maps where it's pro league, average league and newcomers league.
All players with wr will have a rank according to their league and when theres wr release new wrs will be announced in separate sections according to leagues, meaning the highest rated maps would be shown on the top and the lowest on the bottom.
Just expanded a little on commanderd idea.
Also if there are more leagued it'd be easier and faster for newcomers to go through more leagues because if there are only two, given their skill it could take a years to fight with the biggedst boys.
12/04/2018 16:14Originally posted by p0kerMaybe we could separate maps in 4-5 leagues, not just 2. Highest rated league would include only the hardest maps to beat (like napz said 50 or so) They will be both judged by how hard the map itself is and how fast the wr on it is.
Following this we could lower leagues with more maps where it's pro league, average league and newcomers league.
All players with wr will have a rank according to their league and when theres wr release new wrs will be announced in separate sections according to leagues, meaning the highest rated maps would be shown on the top and the lowest on the bottom.
Just expanded a little on commanderd idea.
Also if there are more leagued it'd be easier and faster for newcomers to go through more leagues because if there are only two, given their skill it could take a years to fight with the biggedst boys.
Someone already mentioned similar idea xj had in past but its not possible right now to do..i guess lacking people to take care of it.
12/04/2018 18:35Whtether accept or not it won't bring anything value to the community. May it make it more boring if not.. But more importantly using all maps to be played on cups/leagues etc is what will bring more fun in game instead of the same reptitive maps plus where players only focus on whos faster and not who jumps also cooler
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