kzfr_wallclimb_race and related maps
01/03/2019 02:23(edited 01/03/2019 02:24)Originally posted by JocAits forbiden cuz you cant go up in the sky withOUT hook, simple as that
i mean, on other thread you read what other people said...you can check kz_spain also, if the button is avaivable to start through wall (house) on that map, i think it would be also allowed, no matter of its doors there..so same thing for clintmo_bhopwarehouse
if the mapper knew that stupid start to his map, im sure he will make more thinker wall, so then u will need to start timer -> open door...
also about wallclimb map, you are pressing first the start timer...so what else to discuss there? i hope i undestood well how that sc is working :D
Some people very need to learn difference between Spawn position and Start position.
I just checked kz_spain cuz i didnt know that map, player was walked into room and opened door but when he was started recording,door automaticaly was closed !
In Wallclimb SC ,point is to Start recording > Start timer and press other two buttons in 1 second to open teleport and save time,like fykseN did.
Originally posted by SAJKEEOriginally posted by JocAits forbiden cuz you cant go up in the sky withOUT hook, simple as that
i mean, on other thread you read what other people said...you can check kz_spain also, if the button is avaivable to start through wall (house) on that map, i think it would be also allowed, no matter of its doors there..so same thing for clintmo_bhopwarehouse
if the mapper knew that stupid start to his map, im sure he will make more thinker wall, so then u will need to start timer -> open door...
also about wallclimb map, you are pressing first the start timer...so what else to discuss there? i hope i undestood well how that sc is working :D
Some people very need to learn difference between Spawn position and Start position.
I just checked kz_spain cuz i didnt know that map, player was walked into room and opened door but when he was started recording,door automaticaly was closed !
In Wallclimb SC ,point is to Start recording > Start timer and press other two buttons in 1 second to open teleport and save time,like fykseN did.
Dont know how the hell are u mapper and u still dont understand the point lol
01/03/2019 02:41Originally posted by SAJKEEOriginally posted by JocAits forbiden cuz you cant go up in the sky withOUT hook, simple as that
i mean, on other thread you read what other people said...you can check kz_spain also, if the button is avaivable to start through wall (house) on that map, i think it would be also allowed, no matter of its doors there..so same thing for clintmo_bhopwarehouse
if the mapper knew that stupid start to his map, im sure he will make more thinker wall, so then u will need to start timer -> open door...
also about wallclimb map, you are pressing first the start timer...so what else to discuss there? i hope i undestood well how that sc is working :D
Some people very need to learn difference between Spawn position and Start position.
I just checked kz_spain cuz i didnt know that map, player was walked into room and opened door but when he was started recording,door automaticaly was closed !
In Wallclimb SC ,point is to Start recording > Start timer and press other two buttons in 1 second to open teleport and save time,like fykseN did.
nah, the point of wallclimb race is to press the timer from outside and then opening the door, the SC triggers because of 2 buttons pressed, doesnt involve starting timer. many of you suggest kz_spain but the problem is actually simple, if there's a map in which you have to interact with something in order to open the timer then its ok.
in dbh_pipehop you are actually triggering the bhops before starting the timer, interesting case too
01/03/2019 02:50Originally posted by kyserDont know how the hell are u mapper and u still dont understand the point lol
I can learn you mapping and you can have the same one :)
The problem is that fans dont try to understand things, they just say "jealous" xd.
No problem neither with fyksen or leble, just want to see things well made, like u did when admins decided to remove +use scripted demos because of what rules say.. thats all boys
@kyser if you really care to make something better to kreedz, it would be better to talk about fixing bug/route for cg d2block ez, clintmo map has already been told :D
01/03/2019 08:12I don't know what are you arguing about, both starts are illegal.
01/03/2019 10:14I agree with kyser, he is right!
Very good replies with the rule as a base for every comment.
People need to understand the difference between the opinion and the fact of an existing rule.
Just one last thing..i think my english ist very bad , because door isn't a movable object by Definition . You actually open the door and dont move it.
But like i said, maybe its the correct term in english language to describe the process of opening the door. So a question to all of you : How do you call it in your native language?
Originally posted by kyserOriginally posted by JocAits forbiden cuz you cant go up in the sky withOUT hook, simple as that
These case should be also forbidden cuz you cant go to those rooms withOUT first going through a door, so u are moving a movable object before pressing start button, simple as that
ok now i get what you mean..then the question is: is it allowed to starttimer twice in a run, so the second start will be counted while recording
cuz you can start timer -> open door -> starttimer through wall - > finish
if anyone get what i mean... :D
Originally posted by JocAOriginally posted by kyserOriginally posted by JocAits forbiden cuz you cant go up in the sky withOUT hook, simple as that
These case should be also forbidden cuz you cant go to those rooms withOUT first going through a door, so u are moving a movable object before pressing start button, simple as that
ok now i get what you mean..then the question is: is it allowed to starttimer twice in a run, so the second start will be counted while recording
cuz you can start timer -> open door -> starttimer through wall - > finish
if anyone get what i mean... :D
Of course is not allowed that :D.
The best thing here is modifying that rule
01/03/2019 14:03(edited 01/03/2019 14:04)@FAME Is it allowed to use NoClip or Hook to change your Start position without breaking or opening anything?
There are so many demos where player starting from "top" of the house/wall/mountain/building etc and then they start timer and after that open doors,triggers bhop blocks or buttons,break glass etc...
Of course we can always make another "Alternative routes" for that situations.
I really understand this rule but I think this rule applies to the fact that you may not open door,then start timer and go through already opened door (wallclimb example).
If you still dont understand me, you have two options:
Remove all demos with this case or make another alternative routes thread.
It's not worth spending more time on this.
then i dont see a reason why is it allowed from back then..were people stupidier? :D
Originally posted by SAJKEE@FAME Is it allowed to use NoClip or Hook to change your Start position without breaking or opening anything?
There are so many demos where player starting from "top" of the house/wall/mountain/building etc and then they start timer and after that open doors,triggers bhop blocks or buttons,break glass etc...
Of course we can always make another "Alternative routes" for that situations.
I really understand this rule but I think this rule applies to the fact that you may not open door,then start timer and go through already opened door (wallclimb example).
If you still dont understand me, you have two options:
Remove all demos with this case or make another alternative routes thread.
It's not worth spending more time on this.
It is allowed to use hook or noclip to reach some spots WHICH U CAN REACH THEM BY NORMAL WAY WITHOUT TRIGGERING OBJECTS, the fact of using those plugins is just an advantage to save your time...
Thats why rule should be edited because it confuses a lot.
Originally posted by kyserOriginally posted by SAJKEE@FAME Is it allowed to use NoClip or Hook to change your Start position without breaking or opening anything?
There are so many demos where player starting from "top" of the house/wall/mountain/building etc and then they start timer and after that open doors,triggers bhop blocks or buttons,break glass etc...
Of course we can always make another "Alternative routes" for that situations.
I really understand this rule but I think this rule applies to the fact that you may not open door,then start timer and go through already opened door (wallclimb example).
If you still dont understand me, you have two options:
Remove all demos with this case or make another alternative routes thread.
It's not worth spending more time on this.
It is allowed to use hook or noclip to reach some spots WHICH U CAN REACH THEM BY NORMAL WAY WITHOUT TRIGGERING OBJECTS, the fact of using those plugins is just an advantage to save your time...
Thats why rule should be edited because it confuses a lot.
Actually I think you can still start from positions which require you to break any object/open door, as long as you can reach that desired start position legitimately without a help from hook/noclip etc.
Meaning those 2 rules don't necessarily interact with each other in that way, or how is it rulemakers?
01/03/2019 18:24Here we go with an other tricky situation. In a way, what is important is the fact that someone without any plugins should be able to do the same things as someone doing a run with a plugin. This is the very essence of kz, being able to express crazy movements on default settings, and this is also part of why these rules were made. However, I believe they were badly written and people ended up not respecting them, admins even accepted the demos because it was probably ambiguous... I can see a run like clintmo_bhopwarehouse or wallclimb_race being accepted, it is morally not wrong, this notwithstanding, when you take the case of ae_strafers_heaven, you could press every buttons in the map before starting and then end your run immediatly within 2 seconds. Are all map treated equally? Probably, so this very map would make records like clintmo_bhopwarehouse deprecated. Errors from the admins are costly, and there is probably not any fix that would fit to everyone. Ultimately, and as we did for the +use rule, we should remove these demos, even though parts of kz' history were made on these maps...
01/03/2019 22:35First of all, I understand that the current rule was broken. But, I think the rule could be interpreted as if ".. except for entities that can be reset back to its starting position before starting the timer". wallclimb_race doors automatically close (without plugins) and it makes the map's state back to original and unmodified. After all the rule was made so people don't prepare optimal runs by breaking and moving things, not to literally disallow any interaction with the map's entities.
Either look at the door as breakable object ( wich is not)
or look at the door like it is an empty space, wich it is actually.
Imagine if there were bhop blocks instead of a door.
If he wanted to go to that position behind a wall. Jumping on bhop blocks could be considered moving the object before the start was pressed. I hope you can understand me. In this case everything should be legal as it always was.
Originally posted by Nikša JovanovicEither look at the door as breakable object ( wich is not)
or look at the door like it is an empty space, wich it is actually.
Imagine if there were bhop blocks instead of a door.
If he wanted to go to that position behind a wall. Jumping on bhop blocks could be considered moving the object before the start was pressed. I hope you can understand me. In this case everything should be legal as it always was.
thats the case of dbh_pipehop... but i actually consider a door as a "movable object" more than a "breakable object"... in the rule boths cases are contemplated :/
Exactly like dbh_pipehop!
Movable object wich doesnt trigger something that is going to give you advantage in your run. This is just a normal door.