Demos with speedboost from top of the map
What I mean by this is that some people jump from the peak of the map to the startbutton and gain extra speed or jump height when they press startbutton at the beginning of their demos. (For example look at Fact or Fictions demo on kzno_xtremeblock)
EDIT: I personally think that this technique is stupid but if it would be banned that would make so many demos to be deleted since there are many demos with some kind of boosts before pressing startbutton.
At first I suggested to remove demos with this technique but I didn't know that there are so much these kind of demos and it would affect axn too. So maybe this thread would fit better at "Jump Talk". :P
the usage of timers in axn maps is basicly sliding up and in odinary kz maps like xtremeblock it is for gaining forwards speed so it has some difference to me. i personally think that nothing which could be done without any plugin, maybe except preparing th map by opening door or destroying func_breakables before statting the run, should be allowed.
btw if we are already talking about this... i suggest a new demo rules which says hooking up in the air and falling down to use this speedboost is disallowed.
02/10/2008 23:22This stuff has existed for a long time(j2s_icevalley e.g), and I don't think it's a problem at all.
SchlumPF, I don't think it is allowed to use hook, there is already a rule about it I think (one which is not written lol :P)
Because I thought about that too, that you could just hook, but it is not allowed. Same as noclipping to some non-accessible area of the map isn't allowed, this was denied in the wr of kzru_spacehop.
SO conclusion (my posts are messy as hell):
Let this be allowed, as long as you don't use plugins like noclip or hook.
I agree with you sambb. It's a lame technique. By doing nothing it will be much harder to beat many of the wr's, because you will HAVE to learn this technique. In my opinion those lame shortcuts ruins all jumping and it should not be allowed. But remember, exploits is a part of kz :)
I wont be surprised if admins let it pass though. You can almost compare this to cj. Many many maps suddenly got scs and the highjumps were no longer hard to do. If cjs are allowed this technique will be too.
I can't see here any problem. Why forbidden? You can easily climb up there normally than fall down and start timer and record WR with this type of boost. Hook and CPs just save time needed to climb to the top of the map so it saves recorder's time and demo size.
It's usable "bug" in maps so why don't use it to complete map in the shortest possible time? It's like forbidding using SC's.
Too bad that u all think this way. I just hate to imagine how this stuff will be used in almost every demo from now on.
I also mean that if it should be forbidden it should be done so asap until there are too many wr's of this type. Well, I'm just suggesting...
03/10/2008 01:43There aren't that many maps you can do this one, and mostly we are talking about a few seconds, so it's no big deal.
Originally posted by sambbWhat I mean by this is that some people jump from the peak of the map to the startbutton and gain extra speed or jump height when they press startbutton at the beginning of their demos. (For example look at Fact or Fictions demo on kzno_xtremeblock)
I personally think that this technique is stupid and should not be allowed on wr's... Isn't it kinda weird that when u start jumping the map u "start" from the top? This technique can and WILL destroy almost every single map if admins wont take this seriously.
I have also noticed that this technique is used on axn demos but those demos seem ok to me because the speedboost is made on groundlevel and it's axn's feature.
Ofc I'm suggesting to delete those lame speedboost demos on non-axn maps and update the rules for this too.
What do you think?
+1, there should be some rule to START the DEMO from the RESPAWN, but in other case its bad cuz no1 is gonna look for these kind of SCs, and its interesting to watch demos with such "big SCs"
Shortcuts are what makes KZ fun, nuff said.
03/10/2008 08:39(edited 03/10/2008 08:43)Originally posted by SpiNeShortcuts are what makes KZ fun, nuff said.
+1
Let's not go KX here and disallow all shortcuts. Imo ALL ways to be faster should be allowed whether it's lame or not.
This technique will ruin almost every map? LOL! It ruins exactly 2-3 maps. Breaking breakables before pushing the timer shouldn't be allowed though, because that would take some time for the recorder without breakables.amxx, and it kinda destroys a part of the map. The rules are now just perfect.
EDIT: To the kzru_spacehop incident, Imo it's good that you can only hook up/teleport/noclip to places where you can get without them. It's just faster.
EDIT2: +1 wRath, we're talking about 0,5-1,5 seconds, it's not much. There's this BIG kind of shortcuts in just like... 2-3 maps like I said.
I have thought this again myself and what u guys say here have good point. Maybe this is just one way to bring kz to the next level, again. Flibo is correct too. In some maps this can be used as a semi-big sc but mostly it is just 1-2 seconds.
So yeah maybe I was just too hasty doing this thread, maybe world records are meant to have every possible advantage for the run, which makes them the very bests.
03/10/2008 12:30Originally posted by sambbI have thought this again myself and what u guys say here have good point. Maybe this is just one way to bring kz to the next level, again. Flibo is correct too. In some maps this can be used as a semi-big sc but mostly it is just 1-2 seconds.
So yeah maybe I was just too hasty doing this thread, maybe world records are meant to have every possible advantage for the run, which makes them the very bests.
Really good point. People also whined when CJ was invented, but look at it now: It's all "natural" :) Points also for admitting your "mistake" :P
Originally posted by SpiNeShortcuts are what makes KZ fun, nuff said.
+1
Originally posted by Raptor22^-_-I can't see here any problem. Why forbidden? You can easily climb up there normally than fall down and start timer and record WR with this type of boost. Hook and CPs just save time needed to climb to the top of the map so it saves recorder's time and demo size.
It's usable "bug" in maps so why don't use it to complete map in the shortest possible time? It's like forbidding using SC's.
that is my point of view too :D
at wrath... i never asked whether it is forbidden or not, i just think there should be rule for this even if it admins would not accept such a demo anyway
I think sambb is right, think it destroys alot.. And some maps I think its okey, like axn maps and clintmo_falling and so. Should make some rules for this, like you are not allowed to loose hp while pressing the startbutton.
thats like saying "shortcuts shouldn't be aloud" i'm not being mean but......
04/10/2008 11:55If public servers didn't exist, and everyone had hook/cps everywhere, this technique would be fine with me.
But imagine climbing up in the tree of icevalley every single time you fail to do the big "destroying" shortcut. It would take an awful lot of time to record the map, and it would practically be a miracle if someone made it without using hook/cps for their advantage.
Every map should be done from the start, well, you can use shortcuts that skips the first parts, if there is any, but hooking to the top of the map to get faster in the start just seems like bullshit to me, and it gives you the feeling, that all people care about is getting the fastest time.
Now, this basically is a shortcut, but it is just done the wrong way, and it's gone too far IMO.
lalle's rule suggestion sounds good.
Originally posted by PuppetZ^If public servers didn't exist, and everyone had hook/cps everywhere, this technique would be fine with me.
But imagine climbing up in the tree of icevalley every single time you fail to do the big "destroying" shortcut. It would take an awful lot of time to record the map, and it would practically be a miracle if someone made it without using hook/cps for their advantage.
Every map should be done from the start, well, you can use shortcuts that skips the first parts, if there is any, but hooking to the top of the map to get faster in the start just seems like bullshit to me, and it gives you the feeling, that all people care about is getting the fastest time.
Now, this basically is a shortcut, but it is just done the wrong way, and it's gone too far IMO.
lalle's rule suggestion sounds good.
Couldn't agree more.
Originally posted by Raptor22^-_-I can't see here any problem. Why forbidden? You can easily climb up there normally than fall down and start timer and record WR with this type of boost. Hook and CPs just save time needed to climb to the top of the map so it saves recorder's time and demo size.
It's usable "bug" in maps so why don't use it to complete map in the shortest possible time? It's like forbidding using SC's.
I doubt that is possible to do in icevalley and xtremeblock...
04/10/2008 14:26Spood beest ftw =)
Too late to change the rules now anyways ;)
IMO these kind of sc are just very lame and the lame > skill
brian got pwed xtremeblock by a lame sc, but his skill is as good as fof or maybe greater, this is unfair on that map.
should it be allow ?
yes i think it should be , its not a cheat or script its just a good "exploit" of the map
sry for bad eng
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