Demos with speedboost from top of the map
23/10/2008 00:29Originally posted by SnOOOpYThe shortcuts are part of KZ ...
+1
If some mapper doesnt want this to "happen" on his map, simply build a small cave around the start button (or put the start button in a small cave -.-).
Thats it. eod for me.
You do what you want, but personally i disconnect a demo right away if i see a map/demo that has been beaten by 1-2 secs and the slide sc is included in the run.
Yea well, point being is that great times such as rivalcliff times are being redone 'cause of this lame ass timer slide. People should jump their way up not slide. The thing with xtremeblock was totally lame, same with many other maps. Technique should be banned and old times should retake their earlier positions, and for the future make start timers cubical such as kt_aztecblock.
I'm not calling FoF or Bunkka a newb for doing this but I'm calling the technique lame as hell. Many players dont even want to do the timer slide because it really is lame...
For the people commenting "The shortcuts are part of KZ" just a sad excuse to beat others time. And for the part 'shortcut' this isn't a shortcut since you are taking the very same way to the top as any other player. This is just like adding a speedboost in the beginning...
Thing that would seem easier is to just add [+lamo] in the wr and add the real time without the slide crap below or above it. The thing with j2s_icevalley should be also [+lamo].
Modify the rules by adding something like this "Speed shouldn't be over 278 when pressing the start timer" 278 is just a number.
Sad to see that so many of you support this, but it is your own opinion and I have to respect that although I dont agree with you. And I realise that doesn't matter how much whine we post it will never be illegal :/.
PS. Seriously I'm not calling Flibo a lamo for doing the timerslide, nor FoF or Bunkka, not anyone. The technique is lame not you.
12/11/2008 14:02As I've said earlier, this "technique" only differs from others, 'cause you can not use it on public. Maybe admins can, but not average users. For all you know, kz is much more than geeking maps at your LAN server, and get your demos listed on a site.
I'm totally cool with people doing this, as long as they:
Start their demo, climb all the way up (without timer), and then jump down, and do the speed boost "shortcut". Everything else is totally taking advantage of plugins, that you do not have access to on other servers. I'd say you should remove all the demos with this, and get the old records back.
And yes, make a poll!
Also, I think all those fucking longjump plugins shouldn't be allowed, it destroys the demos, and it's just as much an advantage as using the /speed command.
amx_off; sv_restart 1; record new_demo.
Ok, climber goes all the way up (no hooks, sv_gravity 800, no other plugins) and the jumps down and see if he makes it or not. Sucks for you to demo it, but then I accept it.
About lj plugin, isn't the /speed something you have to write if you want it to show? If it's not crappy plugin.
Originally posted by PuppetZ^As I've said earlier, this "technique" only differs from others, 'cause you can not use it on public. Maybe admins can, but not average users. For all you know, kz is much more than geeking maps at your LAN server, and get your demos listed on a site.
I'm totally cool with people doing this, as long as they:
Start their demo, climb all the way up (without timer), and then jump down, and do the speed boost "shortcut". Everything else is totally taking advantage of plugins, that you do not have access to on other servers. I'd say you should remove all the demos with this, and get the old records back.
And yes, make a poll!
Also, I think all those fucking longjump plugins shouldn't be allowed, it destroys the demos, and it's just as much an advantage as using the /speed command.
amx_off; sv_restart 1; record new_demo.
agree with your post, I'm not some oldschool player, but I don't think that oldschool WRs had checkpoints and hooks, so If some1 want to beat a WR demo with ~1 min less of the WR time, climb the map -> use speedboost -> do the WR (play hard - go pro) :P
Originally posted by b0nguYou do what you want, but personally i disconnect a demo right away if i see a map/demo that has been beaten by 1-2 secs and the slide sc is included in the run.
@Puppetz just doesn't want his summercliff demos beaten. :D But yeah I'm never going to keep the demo with the timerslide ever.
I just hope that no one will take summercliffs with the timerslide...
12/11/2008 17:47What kind of bullshit is that? Please take my posts serious, or stay quiet.
It's not bullshit, I just hope no one will take it with slide, but it is ok if someone takes it.
PuppetZ everyone got your point and I guess everyone took you seriously. I still think it is a lame technique but it should be allowed if you do it like you suggested.
Originally posted by Gargoyle-Yea well, point being is that great times such as rivalcliff times are being redone 'cause of this lame ass timer slide.
-The thing with xtremeblock was totally lame.
-I'm not calling FoF or Bunkka a newb for doing this but I'm calling the technique lame as hell.
-Many players dont even want to do the timer slide because it really is lame...
-Thing that would seem easier is to just add [
PS. Seriously I'm not calling Flibo a lamo for doing the timerslide, nor FoF or Bunkka, not anyone. The technique is lame not you.
dp
Your point is? Take a dictionary and search for synonyms?
EDIT: Correction.
Originally posted by GargoyleYou'r point is? Take a dictionary and search for synonyms?
Originally posted by PuppetZ^As I've said earlier, this "technique" only differs from others, 'cause you can not use it on public. Maybe admins can, but not average users. For all you know, kz is much more than geeking maps at your LAN server, and get your demos listed on a site.
I'm totally cool with people doing this, as long as they:
Start their demo, climb all the way up (without timer), and then jump down, and do the speed boost "shortcut". Everything else is totally taking advantage of plugins, that you do not have access to on other servers. I'd say you should remove all the demos with this, and get the old records back.
And yes, make a poll!
Also, I think all those fucking longjump plugins shouldn't be allowed, it destroys the demos, and it's just as much an advantage as using the /speed command.
amx_off; sv_restart 1; record new_demo.
I agree completely with sexy over here. I don't mind people having the hooking to the actual timer or having a checkpoint there, but they cannot skip ANY jumps using either of those. Supa said this somewhere - this bug is not exactly a half life engine bug, it's the mapper's fault... That's why it's not like cj. It does utilize a bug in the engine, which is the double ducking, but it is not 100% bug, and that's why it should be allowed ONLY if the person makes the climb up in the demo before starting the timer.
I also agree with puppetz on ljstats, strafecounter, and all of those. Not only is it ugly as hell on the demo, it also helps people. I'm not saying that all the demos with ljstats should be removed now, but I do think the ones with the dropdown sc should. There are way too many demos with ljstats on them, but there aren't that many with the new sc. XJ should remove them before there are too many.
AXN is a little different, but not really. Demos with AXN where the jumper falls from high up to start the timer (supa's kzfr_bhop_wood) SHOULD be removed. Demos where a jumper bhops around before starting the timer should NOT be removed. Bhopping around is just utilizing the AXN settings.
I think the rule shouldn't be based on SPEED (for the sake of AXN), but that the jumper has to start at the bottom of the map, UNLESS he climbs all the way up in the demo and then falls down.
Also, people must be forbidden to jump with ljstats and anything like that, in my opinion.
Edit: SilverNinja made me realize that my rule was a little bit vague. Here I made it clearer:
A jumper cannot skip ANY jump between the start timer and the end timer that can be used to complete the map before starting the timer.
If the jump must be made in order to REACH the start timer, it can be skipped.
According to this rule:
Supa's risk_compound must be removed, because he hooked up and did basically the same thing as has been done on the latest kzno_xtremeblock records.
Brian's kz_a2_godspeed does not have to be removed, because the jumps he skips are only jumps that must be done to REACH the start timer.
Edit2: Also, bunkka's kz_space must be removed according to this rule.
This is only fair, if you ask me.
P.S. If you want to be an asshole and find loopholes:
SilverNinja: say for example on kz_5trees
SilverNinja: you know you start in the water?
ChoppeR [s1gh]: okay?
SilverNinja: and gotta jump up those gay things to get to the timer?
SilverNinja: ok say you spawn.. and hook to the timer
SilverNinja: then you press timer.. jump down in the water.. jump back up the gay things.. and beat the map
SilverNinja: you just used the jumps to beat the map
SilverNinja: and you skipped them with hook
SilverNinja: owned?
ChoppeR [s1gh]: LOL ARE YOU RETARDED?
@plugins in demos
as long as the stats are shown on landing there is no advantage. they just know how good their jump was which good climbers should "feel" anyway. but, showing the pre before you landed would be an advantage cuz the player could simply do a 180° turn to try the pre again if he did a bad one.
all plugins should be handled like this.
imo even the invis plugin should be allowed to make water invisible. the point is that xj trys to gather the best times on chosen maps so nobody should care whether something is visible (like a hudmessage or water) or invisible. this should at least be allowed for handy plugin like the invis plugin except players which edit the plugin so they cannot see func_walls for example (seems to me similar like aiming with a wh).
@climbing up before doing that slide sc
climbing up just to do a cp and then to see the person failing the sc sometimes before he did it with a wr run would be very annoying. furthermore the demo would be a lot bigger and take more traffic (best argument to persuade faker to (not) do sth :D). also dont forget that those guys who use this sc or will use it in some demo prove to be able to finish the map by the actual run which make this rule nonsense. i really see no good argument in this since xj exists of bugs and i dont want to distinguish enginge and map bugs. for example think about risk_compound which got destroyed by a mappers fault. did the admins ask the mapper for a fixed version or did they keep the wr? is disallowing the way the player used for the wr but keeping his demo fair to other player? is removing his demo and disallowing his way to climb up fair? its hard to say...
Lemme tackle this bit by bit.
"climbing up just to do a cp and then to see the person failing the sc sometimes before he did it with a wr run would be very annoying."
The point is, no one will actually climb up to try an sc like this. Making this rule would highly, HIGHLY discourage doing an sc like that - that's why it solves the problem.
"furthermore the demo would be a lot bigger and take more traffic"
See that ^.
If anyone EVER did a demo with that sc (I doubt it), there would not be many of them.
"those guys who use this sc or will use it in some demo prove to be able to finish the map by the actual run"
Who cares? I could finish 1man_understock in 7 seconds in public. We should just consider it something that is not done, more so out of etiquette than anything else.
About risk_compound... We've had this discussion over and over again 10 times. The admins should have asked for a new version of the map, if you ask me (like with suk_desertblock).
Players will get mad if their demos are removed, nothing you can do about that. The thing is, they have to be removed NOW, before more demos like this pop up.
14/11/2008 13:19Banning LJ plugins because they give you an advantage is bullshit. You don't get any messages until the jump is executed, so it doesn't give you an advantage, you can't change the jump after you have done it. You can use this as an advantage before recording, to check what gives you the most suitable prestrafe, but no one will ever know that ;)
14/11/2008 15:58those not public bhop stats give you an advantage on bhop pre so dont talk shit wRath <3 :D
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