Demos with speedboost from top of the map
Originally posted by PuppetZ^If public servers didn't exist, and everyone had hook/cps everywhere, this technique would be fine with me.
But imagine climbing up in the tree of icevalley every single time you fail to do the big "destroying" shortcut. It would take an awful lot of time to record the map, and it would practically be a miracle if someone made it without using hook/cps for their advantage.
Every map should be done from the start, well, you can use shortcuts that skips the first parts, if there is any, but hooking to the top of the map to get faster in the start just seems like bullshit to me, and it gives you the feeling, that all people care about is getting the fastest time.
Now, this basically is a shortcut, but it is just done the wrong way, and it's gone too far IMO.
lalle's rule suggestion sounds good.
agree!
04/10/2008 18:04Originally posted by tranche-tailleyes i think it should be , its not a cheat or script its just a good "exploit" of the map
Im its not a exploit its not even cheat or scripting...
Its only a hook/noclip advantage. And such plugins should be forbidden in the record section.
The speedboost sc is lame and proove that there is no real skill in it, to learn it. (Because of hooking up to the end- or to other stages)
If it would be without noclip/hook it would okay. But such scs in the demos has been made with noclip/hook and thats not really okay. If the jumper would climb it up. It would be okay.
in 95% of all kz maps its useless (you could get 1 second with it,wow). I don't think its cool to see records broken with this kind of scs, yea , its pretty lame. but I don't think that its cool if xj would forbid this. so yea it is lame, but yea, it is there. (the shortcuts are lame, but they look cool :D)
when ppl got to know about cj many records were broken too... this is just an sc.
it's lame end of story.. if only you guys had played with no checkpoints and no plugins...
05/10/2008 10:42(edited 05/10/2008 10:47)Originally posted by PuppetZ^If public servers didn't exist, and everyone had hook/cps everywhere, this technique would be fine with me.
But imagine climbing up in the tree of icevalley every single time you fail to do the big "destroying" shortcut. It would take an awful lot of time to record the map, and it would practically be a miracle if someone made it without using hook/cps for their advantage.
Every map should be done from the start, well, you can use shortcuts that skips the first parts, if there is any, but hooking to the top of the map to get faster in the start just seems like bullshit to me, and it gives you the feeling, that all people care about is getting the fastest time.
Now, this basically is a shortcut, but it is just done the wrong way, and it's gone too far IMO.
lalle's rule suggestion sounds good.
Hooking up to the tree in kz_j2s_icevalley gives you no actual advantage in the run. If a guy doesn't want to download a hook plugin to his server, then he can as well use sv_gravity or even jump there.
Of course people only care about the time? What else should they care about? There's no style points in kz world records.
EDIT: "and it would practically be a miracle if someone made it without using hook/cps for their advantage." [ego]Lulz, I did it on a chinese kz server where there was no checkpoints :P[/ego]
EDIT2: By the way, these kind of shortcuts can be easily avoided in future kz maps, if mappers modify their startbuttons.
lalle's rule would be pointless, people would just eb the start timer then there not losing hp.
Originally posted by leggielalle's rule would be pointless, people would just eb the start timer then there not losing hp.
what about my rule? .. to start demo from the respawn.. (record demo; sv_restart 1... no hook, no cp's)
imo these type of timer-boosting is gay. U could easily take an advantage... Btw 1 secs is enough for some recs. I hope we'll see nice rectangular timers in the future with no slopes...
06/10/2008 17:49it would be nice for a new poll on the right side to make it clear what the community thinks!
Originally posted by dEMoliteit would be nice for a new poll on the right side to make it clear what the community thinks!
Good idea. The old one is there for ages.
BTW Supa you said that this trick is lame and you recorded WR using it. Changed your opinion?
maybe he thinks its lame but useful for the wr...
KZ should be fun beating maps is all it is important some maps are made without knowing this technique who cares the point is to reach the top with the best time.
hf
07/10/2008 16:31(edited 07/10/2008 16:47)Well, this technique is neither new (was introduced at icevalley, but nobody cared until that "uber" xtremeblock record got broken) nor unfair, because it is just another way to exploit the cs engine to do crazy things and get faster times, just as countjumps or even longjumps for unreal shortcuts at their time.
It is also pointless to forbid plugins like hook or even gravity to get up and use these kind of shortcuts, because it won't stop ppl using them: They just would have to geek longer to climb the map and use it after they reached the top.
--
What is way more ridiculous are these AXN demos, where ppl use teleports to get to the very right spot to get a mega boost and do the map in a very unreal and fast way.
If there should be changes in the rules, they will have to be bigger and some other demos will be removed as well. We could have a poll about it, if still necessary.
But this affects AXN demos, too.
Originally posted by fakerWell, this technique is neither new (was introduced at icevalley, but nobody cared until that "uber" xtremeblock record got broken) nor unfair, because it is just another way to exploit the cs engine to do crazy things and get faster times, just as countjumps or even longjumps for unreal shortcuts at their time.
It is also pointless to forbid plugins like hook or even gravity to get up and use these kind of shortcuts, because it won't stop ppl using them: They just would have to geek longer to climb the map and use it after they reached the top.
--
What is way more ridiculous are these AXN demos, where ppl use teleports to get to the very right spot to get a mega boost and do the map in a very unreal and fast way.
If there should be changes in the rules, they will have to be bigger and some other demos will be removed as well. We could have a poll about it, if still necessary.
But this affects AXN demos, too.
agreed, but the only real AXN demos that would be removed are the 0 second ones prolly.
07/10/2008 18:27Originally posted by fakerWell, this technique is neither new (was introduced at icevalley, but nobody cared until that "uber" xtremeblock record got broken) nor unfair, because it is just another way to exploit the cs engine to do crazy things and get faster times, just as countjumps or even longjumps for unreal shortcuts at their time.
It is also pointless to forbid plugins like hook or even gravity to get up and use these kind of shortcuts, because it won't stop ppl using them: They just would have to geek longer to climb the map and use it after they reached the top.
--
What is way more ridiculous are these AXN demos, where ppl use teleports to get to the very right spot to get a mega boost and do the map in a very unreal and fast way.
If there should be changes in the rules, they will have to be bigger and some other demos will be removed as well. We could have a poll about it, if still necessary.
But this affects AXN demos, too.
Amen.
I don't know about the AXN demos though. At least the 00:00 demos should be allowed...
the 00:00 demos are the only ones that slide of the timer.. soo umm
Which AXN demos have a normal and realistic speed?
07/10/2008 18:49(edited 07/10/2008 18:50)Actually I wasn't only talking about the start-button-slide SC, I was talking about demos like the kz_man_forest demo, where the guy in the demo (I don't know if supa or count started it) uses teleport to get to the very right position to get a good angle for the mega boost @ the ramp. This would be way harder and took way longer with normal jumping (jumping 1/4 of the map and making the right turn to get the same perfect angle).
well we are more talking about shooting up the timer then the gaining of speed before hitting it.. also i was just reading another post and someone said something like that you can not lose health when you hit the start button, but it is very very very easy to eb that way so that would not really work .. imo the drop sc onto the timer is lame but its part of the evolution of kz, so its there and people know about it so it must be done to gain faster times
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