Improvements-
Feedback is different than judging.
True, do you also know similarities between the 2? Maybe the 2 are closer related and connected to eachother than you think. Judging and feedback go hand in hand a lot of the times.
Instead of trying to focus on the judgement part, focus on the feedback part. It's funny how you blame the community every time... it must be our fault that this community isn't running as it should be.
Because:
'we dont give feedback',
'we only make judgements',
'we only insult and curse',
'we don't get jokes',
Do you really believe that XJ got the bad part of society and all other succesful communities got the best part? Maybe you should start blaming the shepherd and not the sheep.
Anyways, I see you don't want to debate about the other points in my previous post so... good luck.
I guess you can't teach a pig to sing, it doesn't work and it obviously annoys the pig.
11/08/2010 16:29(edited 11/08/2010 16:30)I'm not blaming the community. I'm blaming some individuals on the community.
And you're right, don't give further arguments.
Originally posted by J!nX^Instead of trying to focus on the judgement part, focus on the feedback part. It's funny how you blame the community every time... it must be our fault that this community isn't running as it should be.
Because:
'we dont give feedback',
'we only make judgements',
'we only insult and curse',
'we don't get jokes',
Do you really believe that XJ got the bad part of society and all other succesful communities got the best part? Maybe you should start blaming the shepherd and not the sheep.
well actualy it is(not all) ... look, lagster is trying to kill the communty when there is open discousion about the "bad managment" of the community. Lagster (and the others too who are not Satisfied of the managment) they can always leave the community.
Originally posted by koukouzLet's take a practical example.... I don't see how the fuck in hell someone who used to flame like hazard can be permbanned whereas a person like kayne who, just to remind you, sent around 10 cheated demos (in the forum too) + probably created 20 fake accounts is still there and send demos (I don't know if he is now leggit, the obvious thing is that there will always be a doubt about it, even on admins side).
The difference between Hazard and kayne is that Hazard already got tons of chances to change himself, but he didn't.
Originally posted by unBreakSwell actualy it is(not all) ... look, lagster is trying to kill the communty when there is open discousion about the "bad managment" of the community. Lagster (and the others too who are not Satisfied of the managment) they can always leave the community.
:)
well actualy it is(not all) ... look, lagster is trying to kill the communty when there is open discousion about the "bad managment" of the community. Lagster (and the others too who are not Satisfied of the managment) they can always leave the community.
Listen, I can only speak for myself but someone who wants to 'kill' a community isn't going to waste his time by writing such a long comment.
Did you read lagster's post? Do you really think he wrote that just to put oil on the fire and to be funny?
Plus, if a small group of idiots are able to 'kill' a community then there is also a problem somewhere else, don't you agree? Do you know the expression 'What you seed is what you get'?
What you guys are trying to say is: 'This organisation or company isn't working because (some) people are so stupid that they don't buy our products.'
Besides, don't you agree that there were some mistakes made that some people didn't learn anything from? I can even prove that with quotes.
Btw, plague and juleeeh are doing their job great imo. +2
11/08/2010 20:46(edited 11/08/2010 21:00)Originally posted by J!nX^Plus, if a small group of idiots are able to 'kill' a community then there is also a problem somewhere else, don't you agree? Do you know the expression 'What you seed is what you get'?
Nobody said a small group of persons can kill the community, but without being blind you can see that obviously some individuals think they can. That's why he said that probably.
And what unbreaks said is totally true, the fact that the community is going bad is not because of admins, it's because of members. I'm not searching for someone to blame, and I don't know the cause of this derivation, but when I read 3-4 years old news+comments, there is a big mentality change, like it used to be a friendly community and now it's only about competition (not for all, understand me well). As times change, "generations" change, and the current generation seems to have taken KZ as too serious business. (Some people really want to see me as a competition-fag who doesn't have fun at all while playing, but well, I'm here for fun, sorry if it makes some persons unhappy)
And please, stop blaming Vee all the time, I know more about him than his posts here on XJ, and you can trust me on that, he is a very good person. If you don't like him for his job, then alright, just get over it and ignore him. If he really deserved to be kicked, he would have been already.
What I want to say, is that you are in a really comfortable place atm, you're just raging with some unhappy people because of this special puppetz release. But well, first of all, it's not an act of hate from him, only 7D and me did it (not hate though, but I assume the fact that we didn't do it on a kind purpose). You're flaming him because you don't like how he answers all these attacks, but just think one moment, that you (means your person) blame Vee, but Vee has to handle (on his own) all these ragers. I don't know if you've ever been in this situation, but it's impossible to give proper answers when you're "alone against all" (not really the case, hope you understand my point), he's just trying to defend himself the best he can. The point is that you (ragers) should just forget about the incindent and therefore stop giving Vee some hard time answering all of you for an affair that is closed already, and let him go on with his admin job only. You won't make things go forward with your comments you know, argumented or not, all you do atm is to slow the processus down.
[blockquote]Did you read lagster's post? Do you really think he wrote that just to put oil on the fire and to be funny? [/blockquote]
Not to be funny but i really think that he wanna "put oil on the fire"
[blockquote]wants to 'kill' a community isn't going to waste his time by writing such a long comment. [/blockquote]
maybe he was preparing for english(subject at school). You know its comming 1 semptember :D
But seriosly he native language is english, he wont bother to write such long posts
but you think this is his first time he tries to sabotage this community (here is some example (here is some example http://xtreme-jumps.eu/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?217544 if i search deeper maybe i will find some threads like the current one). He is attacking the admins not very hard, but hard enough to start an argue/fight between the members
Originally posted by unBreakS[blockquote]Did you read lagster's post? Do you really think he wrote that just to put oil on the fire and to be funny? [/blockquote]
Not to be funny but i really think that he wanna "put oil on the fire"
[blockquote]wants to 'kill' a community isn't going to waste his time by writing such a long comment. [/blockquote]
maybe he was preparing for english(subject at school). You know its comming 1 semptember :D
But seriosly he native language is english, he wont bother to write such long posts
but you think this is his first time he tries to sabotage this community (here is some example (here is some example http://xtreme-jumps.eu/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?217544 if i search deeper maybe i will find some threads like the current one). He is attacking the admins not very hard, but hard enough to start an argue/fight between the members
What? If you really think that lagster would "kill" or somewhat start a flamewar, you havent really read much of what he said in his post. Lagster have been putting ALOT of time into the scene, more than you would imagine, so if anyones putting oil on the fire, its xj itself.
I strongly agree in some points of lagsters post, but because hes trying to help the community by writing a list of what HE thinks that could have been improved, hes putting oil on the fire? Lagster was actually 'afraid' of being banned by making this thread, because some idiots somehow feels that lagster are going up against XJ and want it destroyed. He clearly stated in his post that he didn't want anyone to feel like that. But if that is what everyone feels like, i quite understand why hes so afraid of being banned.
" I am not flaming nor trying to start a flamewar, these are my ideas on improvement. Each and every bit of criticism is constructive and has been pointed out in the hopes of change"
I appreciate your thoughts koukouz.
Nobody said a small group of persons can kill the community, but without being blind you can see that obviously some individuals think they can.
Yes, you are completely right. There are always idiots, in every community. I just got the feeling that they focus too hard on the idiots and blame them for everything that is running bad.
the fact that the community is going bad is not because of admins, it's because of members. I'm not searching for someone to blame, and I don't know the cause of this derivation, but when I read 3-4 years old news+comments, there is a big mentality change, like it used to be a friendly community and now it's only about competition (not for all, understand me well).
I've been here for atleast 4-5 years, probably a lot longer (I don't know the exact date because my account got deleted 2 years ago by Oddyseus for personal issues with me, talking about bad management) so I hope you don't consider me part of the new generation because I'm not. Been there, done that, seen that.
Yes, you are right about the mentality change and being more serious. That's what happens when an organisation gets bigger, more official and more important. 5 years ago I would never ever have thought that I would get any money for scrolling my mousewheel and moving my mouse.
With great power comes great responsibility. During these 4-5 years the community obviously got bigger, more official and more serious. I think there was and still is a lack of responsibility. XJ management couldn't meet the needs that were required in order to grow smoothly.
Just 2 examples:
1) How long did it take to get a sponsor? There are clans and communities 100 times smaller who got more sponsors than you guys.
2) I've seen a lot of whining about how much work it takes to run this community. Well there is a solution. #@é!)& HIRE more people, there are hundreds of lovely people who want to help. They were never given the chance and have left the community now. So many people want to help but almost everyone gets ignored. However, I must admit that the last months brought some change to this but still not sufficient.
You can blame the people but they probably won't change. If you give people a place to fight, they will fight. If you give people tools to help, they will help. That's just how it works. What I'm trying to say is that you can stimulate the outcome. The people in charge of this community are the ones who should stimulate this in the right direction. Again: 'What you seed is what you get'.
And please, stop blaming Vee all the time, I know more about him than his posts here on XJ, and you can trust me on that, he is a very good person. If you don't like him for his job, then alright, just get over it and ignore him. If he really deserved to be kicked, he would have been already...
First of all, I'm not raging otherwhise I would have gotten a warning. Secondly, I never shared my opinion without some arguments underlining it. Thirdly, I'm not part of that group you mentioned 'with some unhappy people because of this special puppetz release'. I don't support their behaviour at all.
Btw koukouz, I didn't care about the fact that you took puppetz demos. I even like it (like I mentioned in the topic), more battles, more action. A real battle between you 2 (or 3) is always fun. So that's not my problem at all. The problem was the presentation and the announcement. Vee, should have stayed neutral, he had no right to humiliate puppetz like that, even if he didn't intend to, the result remains the same.
It's really easy to counter those rages. He should have just said 'Sorry, I made a mistake and this won't happen again'. Instead, he said in an arrogant way (talking about putting oil on the fire and you get what you seed) he didn't make a mistake at all and that 90+% of the people were wrong and have no humour. How can you be that arrogant? Even faker agreed on the fact it was a bad text, and he's still so stubborn. But my opinion about Vee isn't just based on that incident. It's based on more than just that incident, it's based on how he deals with situations, his views of how a community should work, his quotes...
Of course they aren't going to fire him. He probably donates a lot (which is great), works hard and puts a lot of time into several things like organising cups and checking demos. And trust me, I'll give him credit for that. But he should start being less cocky, admit his mistakes and learn from them.
Btw, I never said something bad about Vee as a person. I believe you when you say he is a great person and he probably has a lovely personality as a member of this community. I was just criticising his position as an admin. And yeah, I'll admit that I'm probably a bit too cocky and rude but that's because he's so stubborn and ignorant lol.
[blockquote]With great power comes great responsibility. During these 4-5 years the community obviously got bigger, more official and more serious. I think there was and still is a lack of responsibility. XJ management couldn't meet the needs that were required in order to grow smoothly.
Just 2 examples:
1) How long did it take to get a sponsor? There are clans and communities 100 times smaller who got more sponsors than you guys.
2) I've seen a lot of whining about how much work it takes to run this community. Well there is a solution. #@é!)& HIRE more people, there are hundreds of lovely people who want to help. They were never given the chance and have left the community now. So many people want to help but almost everyone gets ignored. However, I must admit that the last months brought some change to this but still not sufficient.
You can blame the people but they probably won't change. If you give people a place to fight, they will fight. If you give people tools to help, they will help. That's just how it works. What I'm trying to say is that you can stimulate the outcome. The people in charge of this community are the ones who should stimulate this in the right direction. Again: 'What you seed is what you get'.[/blockquote]
I agree with you.The community need more admins, but its not that ez to find an trust worthy admin. Cos for example thopa was doin` a great job but he fcked up with the FDAdmin and he got kick. What i`m tryng to say that you cant trust everyone. There are a lot of polite guys porhaps they will have chance.
[blockquote]Thirdly, I'm not part of that group you mentioned 'with some unhappy people because of this special puppetz release'. I don't support their behaviour at all. [/blockquote]
maybe you dont, but there are some members very mad about that bad joke. I`ve got 1 messege for them: "We are human, We make mistakes, its humanely is to forgive.
[blockquote]Vamp post...
What? If you really think that lagster would "kill" or somewhat start a flamewar, you havent really read much of what he said in his post..[/blockquote]
Yes i did think that, thats why i said that. And what did he think that posting thread like this wont start a flamewar? EX. For a little time the Puppetz release went quiet, but when he started this thread he have explain hiself again !
he was banned... he posted his opinion without giving names... he tried his best in his post to not throw any type of shit at anyone in particular... get your facts straight.
i agree with some of the things lagsterrr posted here. ESPECIALLY with the admins-users relation... we really need to work on our so called "people skills"
we need to be more active when we get a request of some sort. we need to be snappier at giving answers to the community.
i guess this whole "lagging" (see what i did there lagster? :D ) situation is what bothers me the most. i mean i try my best to answer all of your requests. hopefully you also understand that after all we do have our own lives and it kinda is normal for us not to be at our computers 24/7...
also, a big thumbs up to koukouz for his post. basically everyone should read a few old news now and then, just to get re-acquainted with what XJ was a few years ago.
it truly is sad to see people post idiotic stuff in the chatbox and forum all the time. i mean we all understand a troll, but some of the users are in serious need of psychiatric help... ofc i'm not gonna give any names, but you can see them all around us...
considering XJ was a "kz family 3-4 years ago, now it has become a place to flame and argue about absolutely anything and everything...
12/08/2010 02:17And this is why we're about to take "interesting" measures against these 'individuals'... ;)
I will write a longer post tomorrow, I'm falling asleep...
12/08/2010 07:02May I "bwhahaha" before the post? If yes, bwhahaha! If not, nevermind.
12/08/2010 07:15Originally posted by VeeMay I "bwhahaha" before the post? If yes, bwhahaha! If not, nevermind.
wtf? :D!!!
12/08/2010 08:43I really am having a hard time responding to you unBreakS, your possibly the most stubborn and most ignorant person on this site, I don’t know who you are but from what I can tell you’ve only been signed up for under a year lol your linking a thread I made about MNM, did you read it? Did you understand it? Don’t have a go at me about English rofl its not my fault I know how to string a fucking sentence together, I wrote what I wrote in the hopes of change, did you actually read this post or are you just fanboying kkz and vee? Trying to kill the community, I have tried three times to offer XJ sponsorship through MNM and I’m trying to kill the community? Sad.
Rofl standing up for Vee, how many people have to say he made a mistake before you understand that he made a mistake I’m not putting oil on any fire, I stated over and over even at the start CLEARLY what I was doing, even put dot points especially for people like you so I wouldn’t get idiotic responses and have to sit here wondering why your anywhere near a keyboard.
Get over it Vee, feedback, judgement, if anyone gets judged on this sites it me, not that I even care I could probably write you another 3000 words on what I have done in kz, not only for Australia but for international community’s but I don’t have to prove myself to someone who can’t even admit their own fault. You type like you’ve got it going on when in actual fact you’re as stubborn as unBreakS. I can’t even respond to koukouz cause all he is doing it telling us not to blame you, who is even blaming you? I used you as an example, I didn’t say you were the biggest problem on the site so honestly calm down.
Well done unBreakS for using those sweet quotation marks “bad management†couldn’t pull a proper argument or even understand the problems I outlined so thought you’d try get away with a quick summery, your posts are about as smart as the “bad management†your referring too.
Attacking admins? rofl I said various times in my post how much work they put in and the respect I have for that work, again, didn’t read my post? Or just choosing to ignore it so you can start a fight cause well done, keep replying, and I will keep shutting you down because your arguments are hollow as fuck. It’s almost painful to read what you think is viable when in reality it’s pointless. Any chance to take a shot at Hazard right remake? Cause if you’re going to argue that him flaming is worse than a cheater maybe you should delete steam.
There has been no proper discussion about possible improvements, why? Because Vee and friends are trying to over analyze and convince themselves that his mistake was ok, when in actual fact it wasn't. As an admin Vee I expected more, all you have done in this thread has been completely selfish and spoken about that puppetz shit, yeah I brought it up but I used it as an example I didn't bring it up to 'put oil on the fire' unBreakS rofl. I wrote a lot more than just whatever you two are talking about... w0w LOL
@ Lagster: first of all relax, before you start doing your "number" again, and end up in that warn/ban page... again... we need to keep discussing this :D
secondly, sure there are posts in this thread that don't make sense or try to start an argument... but we don't want that... we want proper communication between users and admins.
so keep this at a decent level of respect!
@ J!nX: i like your way of thinking :P Maybe you could expand your points of view more by telling/suggesting some solutions to all of this...
After all this is a suggestion forum. So keep on suggesting...
Stop arguing about old facts and start suggesting improvements, and ways of implementation.
We might be admins, but we are not rocket scientist, and we can use all the help we can get.
I've seen lots of people posting that we don't "hire" new people because we don't trust them. Well, how can you trust someone that trolls/flames in the forum all the time, someone who you've never heard of, but makes an admin application, someone who could be a cheater, or could have other purposes to be an XJ admin?
Every application that was sent since i am an admin was accepted or denied on simple, decent, basic, common-sense grounds. If the applicant had a normal (general behavior within the community, but also outside of it) history behind him, he was given the chance to be an admin. Every user that was an XJ admin wasn't kicked out... usually they left themselves...
This is just an explanation about the admin system in XJ... there is no biased/subjective decisions when it comes to "hiring" new admins.
OK! Let's continue with the improvements :D
[blockquote]I really am having a hard time responding to you unBreakS, your possibly the most stubborn and most ignorant person on this site, I don’t know who you are but from what I can tell you’ve only been signed up for under a year lol your linking a thread I made about MNM, did you read it? Did you understand it? Don’t have a go at me about English rofl its not my fault I know how to string a fucking sentence together, I wrote what I wrote in the hopes of change, did you actually read this post or are you just fanboying kkz and vee? Trying to kill the community, I have tried three times to offer XJ sponsorship through MNM and I’m trying to kill the community? Sad.[/blockquote]
Look now about that english you better check what i said in the post. And i`m not fan of both.
[[blockquote]b]Rofl standing up for Vee, how many people have to say he made a mistake before you understand that he made a mistake I’m not putting oil on any fire, I stated over and over even at the start CLEARLY what I was doing, even put dot points especially for people like you so I wouldn’t get idiotic responses and have to sit here wondering why your anywhere near a keyboard. [/blockquote]
I know he made a mistake, i belive involuntarily mistake he didn`t mean anything bad. And for that 1 mistake there was a conclusion about him, some1 said that he was arrogant, etc. So yes i`m standing up for Vee cos like i said i belive he didn`t mean anything bad..
12/08/2010 10:46Sorry, trying to be respectful whilst responding to ^ isn't easy. I apologize.
boom <3
I agree.
Lets start bringing up some constructive criticsm, just the way lagster wants this thread to be headed. Now, lagster gave alot of ideas here, so lets see if we can find some more. I'll like to bring up a few to begin with;
boom, I understand that it may be difficult to find new people because you never know whether it could be your worst choice. But you will go nowhere if you don't give it a try, pick the best applications, and "study" the guy a little further before you fully accept him. I mean, the police just dont deny a guy because he smells weird, right? (Bad statement, but LOL, you know what I mean). I'm not saying that you need to accept anyone that applies, but you won't go anywhere without trying. That may solve the 'our crew is too small' problem that some guys are mentioning. =P
Second, I think the admins should be a little more respective when it comes to critiscm. I heard alot of admins coming with "excuses" because they made a fault. Don't excuse, just do it better next time, which can be said about Vee for example.
Moving on, I think that you maybe should talk about activity. Who do what? Instead of ending up in one admin is superactive, and does alot of work, and the other admin have nothing to do, because the other admin made his work. Split it up a little, in that way, you would probably avoid the stress. Just ideas, some of the may be silly, but I guess it could work.