Coronavirus

Originally posted by Mathzz

Originally posted by Trajko

I can't wait to see the movie that will be made in future about coronavirus, it's surely gonna happen.

Contagion (2011). Having said that, it's probably because this movie so many dumb conspiracy theories about covid-19 exists

France didnt care, just going straight to the top5 as fast as possible lmao with 23% death rate. It will be illegal to leave home in Portugal for 15 days, only workers that work in basic needs can leave and for casual shopping in food and needs.

in Serbia its state of emergency (dont know better word) so you cant leave house after 20pm, and 65+people cant go out after 10am (but they are mostly on the streets, iq10 from them..)

number of cases in Serbia are 89 now, and friends told me its not the real number because otherwise it will be a big panic in the country, which i agree is a smart move

i dont have people around me with any symptoms of the virus and i hope we as country wont have any deah case in any period

For the sake of rational and healthy discussions about the virus, I want to see published articles and valid sources that could back your claims of this virus being human made. It`s not enough to say it out of intuition or because “you heard from someone”. Any one can claim whatever they want, but does that still make it scientific? No! It doesn't. There is mounting evidence from genome studies that SARS-CoV-2 originates from animals, but which one? It’s yet to be identified. But there is evidence that it originates from bats, which then transferred to the heavily trafficked animal called pangolins. I urge you to research this yourself. Try using websites like PubMed, NOT just googling it. If this is your ONLY option, then at least use Google Scholar, as this will filter it further and attempt to show academic results. Stay clear of news articles, they usually are oversimplified and wrongly interpreted by the journalists just to produce clickbait articles. READ the study yourself from the original source. Ask yourself: “What does this study claim? What are the findings? How did they come to the conclusion? Are there similar studies made with similar findings? What are the methods used?”. A healthy dose of scepticism to evaluate information presented to you is a positive asset to have, and VERY important skill to master in critical thinking.

Also remember to look for peer reviewed articles. This is very important, as it can almost always ensure you that the claims made in the study have been carefully inspected and analysed by several other researchers. Peer reviewing is there to ensure that quality and reliable information gets published (even if it doesn't always work). Science evolves as existing knowledge gets challenged, and therefore forcing us to look at new ways of solving thesis. Don`t just passively trust anything that claims whatever, if the study or claim can`t be replicated by other researches and produce the same result. Using websites that publish “preprints” e.g. medRxiv is NOT using trusted sources. Why? Because they publish without peer reviews. Yes, some of the articles end up getting published, but usually edited and modified from their preprints. But majority of them probably get rejected - or scraped. Transparent, empirical and scientific approach is now more important than ever with the ongoing replication crisis.

Intuition is so often flawed. And it is a known fact that we as humans are likely to judge and organize information that makes sense to us, even if this information ends up being wrong. Contradictory information that challenges your own beliefs usually ends up leading to an uncomfortable, internal psychological stress, which may or may not change your views. If you want to learn more about cognitive biases and other decision making flaws we make, then read the highly praised work by Daniel Kahneman Thinking, Fast and Slow.

Furthermore, studies show that people who believe in conspiracy theories usually are associated with lower analytical thinking skills - or suggest underlying maladaptive personality traits to explain delusional beliefs. There is also a positive association between conspiracy theories and psychological disorders, such as schizophrenia (or schizotypy-disorders). Typically, when official records of an event appear inadequate or no definitive explanation exists for it, conspiracy theories of those events are endorsed - which is the case with covid-19. A conspiracy theory is a secret plot by powerful people or organizations working together to advance some kind of sinister goal through deception. A biochemical weapon that kills millions? People who have high levels of mistrust to their government, political system or are susceptible to paranoia will fail to reason, thus creating this story that fits their narrative and distorted world view. Taking all this into consideration, it’s also plausible to discuss about whether the delusional belief – or conspiracy theory is actually a psychosis.

There is no point in arguing with people that believe in conspiracy. They won't read your lenghty post, they won't check your sources. This is a website with only a few people online and active, minimal amount of people browsing forums.

Is this really the correct place for such a debate?

[blockquote]Why waste time say lot word, when few word do trick ?[/blockquote]

My god, mathzz...
That scientific rigor looks so absurd at some game forum lol, but we'll devour that and get on with it in a second...don't scare people that much with that talk!

Belarusian forests admirer reporting in.

First things first, a question to a thread owner. In fact, it is a massive pool of questions regarding one concrete topic - diagnostics.
"Why did the RT-PCR assay took so long to get on rails both in Asia and European regions?" It's not even close to being established in the post-soviet countries, while them having all the tools to do it. What is going on with the diagnostical capacity of Spain and France?
China's CDC revealed the RNA sequence of two known strains of SARS-CoV-2 in the beginning of January. PCR assay, both automated and non-automated is extremely accurate and easy to execute, since it's been around for decades now. WHO published it's assay pretty much straight after the sequencing was finished. Why can't any private medical institution perform testing for SARS-CoV-2? What is going on with such a small list of laboratories certified by WHO. The official situation reports' statistics are an absolute joke then, especially amongst post-soviet countries. Why did CDC yet again decided to publish their own assay? Serious questions for serious people, mathzz. Though, probably way too political.

Secondly, I'd like to underline Chichin's words about the seasonal allergy, rhinitis, etc. I have that too and I must say that I am in a risk group. I always get sick during March / April because of being allergic to pollen. And I got sick.
It was bad. Broncho traheitis with whistlings and other noises while breathing, basic difficulty of breathing and all the stuff, altogether with seasonal allergy. I feel much better now, but it took a while, and I'm still not completely recovered.
So the point is - I went to the local hospital... and they did pretty much nothing about the possibility of me being infected with SARS-CoV-2. The only thing related to that was the question about being abroad 14 days prior. (Well, except for those conspiracies about blood tests with fever patients being delivered to some lab for a check and if you're positive, you'll be captured and get quarantined. Sweet.) I was in a northern part of Germany a month ago, and I had a bitchy ongoing cold since late january. After getting back home, I got pretty serious fever manifestations up to 37,7 C twice, lasting two-three days throughout two weeks, with nausea and general weakness. Mostly self-treatment for them, no antibiotics. (Both also were mostly because me having way too much hot and cold treatment and running with my hair wet at -2 C with all of the stuff mentioned above.) I told everything, no one really bothered, since it's been more than 14 days. They just keep asking that question about being abroad. With the current ongoing situation, at this time it's obviously pointless. But theres one good thing - you instantly get you chest scanned. Fever check, blood, and a lung X-ray. Well, basic pneumonia case diagnosis.
I'm currently self-forcing the isolation. It doesn't matter whether my bronchitis was caused by SARS-CoV-2 or not. Not going outside unless groceries & medicine, hospital, staying away from the elders. Not going home. All I can do. But all my colleagues - they are there at their jobs, coughing and sneezing, just like I did, just like they did prior to me. There's no quarantine here at all. Not even in schools. That's bold truth to you. The post-soviet region will suffer badly, with a delay in statistics because of the ignorant political approach to it. That number in the situation reports is being used by mass media to calm everyone down and it works. No one cares. People die from pneumonia complications, not from SARS-CoV-2 anyways. That's the ultimate speculation.

Thirdly. The Stigmatization. It is bad. It's so bad, you would rather lie of being sick with covid and pretend it's just a regular seasonal flu. Ill people afraid to wear masks while going out. It is as bad as HIV here. Everyone coming from abroad being infected with SARS-CoV-2 is a target. A target to abuse. So please, listen to me carefully here - Stop that. Stop it. Stop.

Lastly. You are a racist, Mathzz. ("Chinese government propaganda")
And I am also geniunly scared of your intentions, making such a thread here. But we get it, vous êtes un scientifique incroyable!

Originally posted by bydlo

My god, mathzz...
That scientific rigor looks so absurd at some game forum lol, but we'll devour that and get on with it in a second...don't scare people that much with that talk!

Belarusian forests admirer reporting in.

First things first, a question to a thread owner. In fact, it is a massive pool of questions regarding one concrete topic - diagnostics.
"Why did the RT-PCR assay took so long to get on rails both in Asia and European regions?" It's not even close to being established in the post-soviet countries, while them having all the tools to do it. What is going on with the diagnostical capacity of Spain and France?
China's CDC revealed the RNA sequence of two known strains of SARS-CoV-2 in the beginning of January. PCR assay, both automated and non-automated is extremely accurate and easy to execute, since it's been around for decades now. WHO published it's assay pretty much straight after the sequencing was finished. Why can't any private medical institution perform testing for SARS-CoV-2? What is going on with such a small list of laboratories certified by WHO. The official situation reports' statistics are an absolute joke then, especially amongst post-soviet countries. Why did CDC yet again decided to publish their own assay? Serious questions for serious people, mathzz. Though, probably way too political.

Secondly, I'd like to underline Chichin's words about the seasonal allergy, rhinitis, etc. I have that too and I must say that I am in a risk group. I always get sick during March / April because of being allergic to pollen. And I got sick.
It was bad. Broncho traheitis with whistlings and other noises while breathing, basic difficulty of breathing and all the stuff, altogether with seasonal allergy. I feel much better now, but it took a while, and I'm still not completely recovered.
So the point is - I went to the local hospital... and they did pretty much nothing about the possibility of me being infected with SARS-CoV-2. The only thing related to that was the question about being abroad 14 days prior. (Well, except for those conspiracies about blood tests with fever patients being delivered to some lab for a check and if you're positive, you'll be captured and get quarantined. Sweet.) I was in a northern part of Germany a month ago, and I had a bitchy ongoing cold since late january. After getting back home, I got pretty serious fever manifestations up to 37,7 C twice, lasting two-three days throughout two weeks, with nausea and general weakness. Mostly self-treatment for them, no antibiotics. (Both also were mostly because me having way too much hot and cold treatment and running with my hair wet at -2 C with all of the stuff mentioned above.) I told everything, no one really bothered, since it's been more than 14 days. They just keep asking that question about being abroad. With the current ongoing situation, at this time it's obviously pointless. But theres one good thing - you instantly get you chest scanned. Fever check, blood, and a lung X-ray. Well, basic pneumonia case diagnosis.
I'm currently self-forcing the isolation. It doesn't matter whether my bronchitis was caused by SARS-CoV-2 or not. Not going outside unless groceries & medicine, hospital, staying away from the elders. Not going home. All I can do. But all my colleagues - they are there at their jobs, coughing and sneezing, just like I did, just like they did prior to me. There's no quarantine here at all. Not even in schools. That's bold truth to you. The post-soviet region will suffer badly, with a delay in statistics because of the ignorant political approach to it. That number in the situation reports is being used by mass media to calm everyone down and it works. No one cares. People die from pneumonia complications, not from SARS-CoV-2 anyways. That's the ultimate speculation.

Thirdly. The Stigmatization. It is bad. It's so bad, you would rather lie of being sick with covid and pretend it's just a regular seasonal flu. Ill people afraid to wear masks while going out. It is as bad as HIV here. Everyone coming from abroad being infected with SARS-CoV-2 is a target. A target to abuse. So please, listen to me carefully here - Stop that. Stop it. Stop.

Lastly. You are a racist, Mathzz. ("Chinese government propaganda")
And I am also geniunly scared of your intentions, making such a thread here. But we get it, vous êtes un scientifique incroyable!

But it's true? That's simply stating a fact. China is a one-party state with roots in communism and socialism. It's not democratic, nor does China respect the freedom to express yourself. There is a growing consensus or concern that China covid-19 cases are underreported. You have no idea what you're talking about. So uncalled for to be called racist because of that? You need to pay attention and not just read sequences in the chat / forum and construct stupid accusations out of thin air.

Seriously.. What the fuck man?

With all due respect, this thread isn’t about spreading propaganda. Even though Chinese government has been found to fabricate and manipulate social media to guide social opinion through propaganda. Like any sceptic, I need hard evidence to prove me wrong. Provide me with sources that back your claims, then we can discuss. Until then, I will take any data produced in a communist state with a grain of salt. Does that mean I don't respect the numbers and reports, or even refuse to believe it all together? No. But the government actively tried to silence the early whistleblowers during early days in the outbreak. Most notably Li Wenliang.

For me the numbers aren’t the most important thing right now. Most of the countries aren’t even testing everyone that is having symptom, and it's safe to assume that probability of many unreported cases is high. This skews up the statistics anyways. We likely won't see the real numbers until the outbreak is over, a post mortem. What is important is to understand how serious this disease is. The conspiracy theory has been debunked, and it’s NOT produced in a lab or manipulated by humans.

And for the sake of us mathzz, please, do not edit your messages like that. Make a new one. I don't want to go up re-reading what you wrote to find new bits of words, or even a whole new thesis there.