Is longjumping good or bad for XJ?
Well to start out with, I'll try to keep my words objective, so I won't offend anyone.
The latest 6-10 months longjumping have become bigger and bigger, some people doesn't even play normal KZ but just longjumping. They try to get their respective records on the LJ page so their name will be displayed for the whole jumping scene. Some people even started to get famous for their longjumping skills, people like Bibo, arj, heat, SniperOK, ArN, oTcHeTo and a lot more. I actually thinks this starts before those people, it starts when kz_man_riverside is released, the first map, where there is longjumps in the end (as far as I know). People like T3dbundY, AltsicH and Kimo are dominating the longjump scene - I think it starts there and expands till what it is today.
So at the moment a lot of people of this site is angry about how much influence these longjumpers have gotten on the forums. They've even gotten their own little subforum.
Some people are also mad at the attitude towards how some people meassure KZ skills - Example at public when people see you are a good player, or they want to find out, they usually asks for your LJ record - This is offensive to a lot of people who means that LJ is nothing worth in general when you play KZ.
The last thing is, what I think, that KZ have gotten a lot more competetive due to longjumping explansion - People are maxing the HL engine, like a 256 jump is impossible for some people, not with 100 % luck would they be able to do a jump like that, but for some other people, they can do it 1/50 on stats.
So when people are expanding the longjumping, does the worldrecords follow? When we max the longjumping will we also max the worldrecords? Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing?
Is longjumping good or bad for XJ?
You be the judge!
(btw. eDark are you able to find out what MAX lj is, or is it impossible?)
Btw. sorry for the bad english... I'm at work and there is music and customers all the time.
LJing is part of KZ, very intresting part. And it is good for XJ.
I think the longjump thingy got little out of hand when the lj-stats came. Altho I havent anything against longjumpers, I enjoy watching longjump demos and jump it myself. I just find it kinda lame, cuz' longjumping is just one element of KZ. KZ is so much more, theris so many elements that u gotta combine to climb a map faster then everybodyelse. I think we would have many more climbers like zhady,hel,brian,stormzz,mjuuh and etcetc if people didnt have longjumping as the number one priority.
And thats most likely why so many prefer longjumping, cuz its easier to record, its really hard to be satisfied with a run, and also very hard to complete good run that is good enough to compete with others.
lalle is absolutely right;] he took the words outta my mouth!
Nice comment lalleballe!
But you can compare it to reallife the olympics. Longjumping is a sport, couldn't it be like that in a game?
btw. isn't mjuuh kinda longjumper?
In my opinion longjumping hasn't had a negative effect on this community or a positive. The thing which has effected the community though are the longjump-haters. If people want to longjump then let them do that, if people want to geek KZ maps then let them do that.
It's been said before and I 100% agree with it is, that the longjump-haters only hate longjumping because of the amount of publicity they get.
There are tons of post saying "Meh longjumping is sooo easy compared to KZ, all you have to do is jump on a block for a whole day"
My reply to these people if it's so easy then go out for half an hour on longjumps and prove it.
Long story short, leave the longjumpers to longjump and the KZ'ers to jump KZ.
Scary, he has the full package and he has wr's in maps (bhop maps..) ... i think ljing's main purpose is practice for playing in maps and if its practical and helps you in kz its ok / xcept for the new cj block's .
i know allot of players who can hit 260 + stats with the new pre but in maps you will never come across something similar to that ...
And about the first thing an unexperienced jumpers ask someone good on a server ,they are most times not interested in blocks , and botter you askink 1.distance 2. pre max , min ,average 3.maxspeed and stuff about how to raise it 4.sync 5. rec with 2 strafes, rec with 3 strafes , ...and so on... and multiply by 3 for every type of jump bj lj cj
And Ofc all of this came with ljs plugin (for some time i dont have lj plug on lan but when i feel i have good strafes i record with r3bel's plug ,it tels you how far you jump from the edge ...)
just take a look how often kz_longjumps had been downloaded... 13274 times!
nothing against lj, but if you want to know the skills of the others players, dont ask them for their lj rec!
so i think lj is destroying xj slowly.
come on, u watch a lj demo maybe 30 sec...
a nice run is so fcking nice entertainment!
know my english sucks :D
Watching a Lj demo or watching a KZ run.
Its all personal opinion.
20/08/2008 20:55Originally posted by scaryNice comment lalleballe!
But you can compare it to reallife the olympics. Longjumping is a sport, couldn't it be like that in a game?
Interesting thought there, scary ... And the thread too.
I guess it could be, maybe the community should do more for keeping them separate, so that newcomers won't get the impression that you are good at KZ if you are good at jumping far! I think many people seem to go that way, it's the easiest if you want to get fame, and also takes much less experience than climbing, IMO.
But then again, it's really not that separated from KZ, since you have to be armed with a decent longjump skill to beat most of the extreme KZ maps, which seems to be popular these days (nothing bad about them, btw) ...
Well, longjumping itself isn't really a problem, as long as it doesn't influent the community/and or climbing in general. Like KZ-servers become longjump-servers (with ljstats, etc.) and therefore less people are climbing, and more people are longjumping.
It is a really tricky topic, 'cause there will always be need for pushing the limits in whatever game/sport/hobby you are a part of, the OG is a great example of this. I think the evolving of longjumping that scary describes in his first post is totally natural, and I do not wonder why things are as they are today.
Another big problem with longjumping is all the negativity it creates here around the forums. Even in the longjump forum people have posted arrogant stuff like "Why do you care so much for stats, stop geeking longjumps!" or something like that. As we are on this, I'd like to say that I might have been a part of this longjumping-hostility that is everywhere around the forums, and servers.
Even back when I started playing KZ for real, (when I quitted surfing and only played KZ) it did not take long before my interest in longjumps was way higher than normal climbing.
I kept getting better everyday, and it was really fun to follow my own skill developing that way by doing longjumps.
After a while I broke 252 units, and from there I kept trying and trying, but it just went dead, and I didn't come any further. Then I started playing more with other guys (Mehz, electron <3) and I was training my general climbing skill and bhops more, and that was much more fun that longjumping, although I didn't exactly "quit" longjumping yet.
I guess already back then (about 1,5 year ago) longjumping was influencing a lot of players (I remember a lot of discussions and theories about them from back then).
Well sorry I had to tell my "history", but my point is really that longjumping is usually fun in the start, but (if you keep playing) it will get more boring, and you will maybe start to open your eyes and discover what a wonderful thing Kreedz climbing is .. There are nearly 500 maps, and thousands and thousands of jumps that needs to get some more attention.
Maybe some people just don't need to experience this "adventure" that KZ is, they just want to see how far they can jump, and have fun with their friends doing the same. Well, it's okay with me, as Raptor22 said in another thread: Freedom of choice FTW.
Even though the direction this community is heading might not be the best, it's really interesting following it.
I have one final thing to say: Don't try to force someone to start climbing more, if they don't want to, and they already have a lot of fun longjumping, or whatever. Games are about having fun, and if KZ one day will die, we can't say that there was many reasons to keep it alive, right?
20/08/2008 20:56its not the attention they get, sure its a little peace of it, but the biggest problem is that most of them act like they were the kings here and nobody would be better then them or achieve something near their "super great skill level of jumping" thats just ridiculous in my opinion.
i only watch lj demos if i dont believe that the person made xxx units or to see somebodies reaction after he breaks the world record :D otherwise its boring... but i watch kz runs for other reasons... and yet i dont see how longjumping is bad for xj?
by the way "LJ is nothing worth in general when you play KZ" -wrong... just think about it and if you still dont see why ill try to explain.. but in my opinion ljing is needed as much as bhop for a good kz player (50-50) ^^
20/08/2008 21:02Originally posted by SpiNeIn my opinion longjumping hasn't had a negative effect on this community or a positive. The thing which has effected the community though are the longjump-haters. If people want to longjump then let them do that, if people want to geek KZ maps then let them do that.
It's been said before and I 100% agree with it is, that the longjump-haters only hate longjumping because of the amount of publicity they get.
There are tons of post saying "Meh longjumping is sooo easy compared to KZ, all you have to do is jump on a block for a whole day"
My reply to these people if it's so easy then go out for half an hour on longjumps and prove it.
Long story short, leave the longjumpers to longjump and the KZ'ers to jump KZ.
I agree 100%
And all this shit about how there would be more world records if LJ stats didn't exist or whatever, that is just bullshit. People do what they like to do, and for some reason a lot of people seem to enjoy longjumping.
You can't change that, and to do so would be ridiculous.
So many people in these forums seems to not be able to respect other peoples interests, mostly when it comes to LJ.
Conclusion: LJ is here to stay, and there are a LOT of people enjoying this, and I think you all should just respect that.
Originally posted by PuppetZ^Originally posted by scaryNice comment lalleballe!
But you can compare it to reallife the olympics. Longjumping is a sport, couldn't it be like that in a game?
Interesting thought there, scary ... And the thread too.
I guess it could be, maybe the community should do more for keeping them separate, so that newcomers won't get the impression that you are good at KZ if you are good at jumping far! I think many people seem to go that way, it's the easiest if you want to get fame, and also takes much less experience than climbing, IMO.
But then again, it's really not that separated from KZ, since you have to be armed with a decent longjump skill to beat most of the extreme KZ maps, which seems to be popular these days (nothing bad about them, btw) ...
Well, longjumping itself isn't really a problem, as long as it doesn't influent the community/and or climbing in general. Like KZ-servers become longjump-servers (with ljstats, etc.) and therefore less people are climbing, and more people are longjumping.
It is a really tricky topic, 'cause there will always be need for pushing the limits in whatever game/sport/hobby you are a part of, the OG is a great example of this. I think the evolving of longjumping that scary describes in his first post is totally natural, and I do not wonder why things are as they are today.
Another big problem with longjumping is all the negativity it creates here around the forums. Even in the longjump forum people have posted arrogant stuff like "Why do you care so much for stats, stop geeking longjumps!" or something like that. As we are on this, I'd like to say that I might have been a part of this longjumping-hostility that is everywhere around the forums, and servers.
Even back when I started playing KZ for real, (when I quitted surfing and only played KZ) it did not take long before my interest in longjumps was way higher than normal climbing.
I kept getting better everyday, and it was really fun to follow my own skill developing that way by doing longjumps.
After a while I broke 252 units, and from there I kept trying and trying, but it just went dead, and I didn't come any further. Then I started playing more with other guys (Mehz, electron <3) and I was training my general climbing skill and bhops more, and that was much more fun that longjumping, although I didn't exactly "quit" longjumping yet.
I guess already back then (about 1,5 year ago) longjumping was influencing a lot of players (I remember a lot of discussions and theories about them from back then).
Well sorry I had to tell my "history", but my point is really that longjumping is usually fun in the start, but (if you keep playing) it will get more boring, and you will maybe start to open your eyes and discover what a wonderful thing Kreedz climbing is .. There are nearly 500 maps, and thousands and thousands of jumps that needs to get some more attention.
Maybe some people just don't need to experience this "adventure" that KZ is, they just want to see how far they can jump, and have fun with their friends doing the same. Well, it's okay with me, as Raptor22 said in another thread: Freedom of choice FTW.
Even though the direction this community is heading might not be the best, it's really interesting following it.
I have one final thing to say: Don't try to force someone to start climbing more, if they don't want to, and they already have a lot of fun longjumping, or whatever. Games are about having fun, and if KZ one day will die, we can't say that there was many reasons to keep it alive, right?
qft
I think Ljing help to master "multistraf" jump , u need it in kz-map
for exemple, in kzno_xtremeblock there is a jump where u are on a tiny block and u have to jump on ur right, u must straf even if u cant take run up.
this is the only jump i cant do in the map,because my lj skill sux.
i need to train lj to end that map i think
20/08/2008 21:18(edited 20/08/2008 21:21)Originally posted by wRath`People do what they like to do, and for some reason a lot of people seem to enjoy longjumping.
wrong if a newcomer comes to this site and never have seen any kind of kz/lj or anything related to this, he would start with that what the most people are doing and talking about at the community.
Its a group instinct and people just join the groups under invisible pressure of the community and friends.
you can say what you want I know this is in some way true because my friend totally fall under this type and many others which i have spoken to. And they just sad they didn't care about climbing or kz because others sad its not so important, they told them things like lj is the only thing thats brings you somewhere in kz . And they just trusted and started to like it because others liked it. They don't even thought about trying to climb after what they heard of the others speaking -.-
I showed one friend of mine whats climbing all about and he sad that he couldn't even finish the easiest maps, because he was so addicted to ljing he just had no clue how to climb. And now they climb maps and in the spare time lj a little bit not like in the past 100% of the time.
ok I wrote it fast so theres a lot of mistakes but i hope you get my thoughts
I don't know it its bad for xj, but lj is getting populair EVERYWHERE. Try to join a normal hns server and they ask for your lj/cj rec as very first. Then the funny things are that if u have a lj rec like 250 ( as myself ) ppl with higher recs think they are actually better then me cuz they can jump further. Its getting out of hand sometimes.
Also in hns servers with ljstats on, or even kz servers that mostly have ljstats, everybody is just ljing. Its annoying as hell.
Edit: I have to agree it goes by friend to friend.
My friends didn't know I was kzing etc, and in wars I bhopped sometimes and they where like wow cool, so they kinda started kzing with me. Then they started thinking longjumping was cool cuz they saw some ppl jumping with GODLIKE. now like 2 months later my friends are pwning me in longjump badly cuz thats all they do, I even got a discussion with someone cuz I said for fun that he couldnt countjump and he asked me for my rec... Sux that they don't even wanna do a normal kz map or bhop or whatever
lj not, ljstats yes, thats all
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