WR Demo discussion - two demos with the same

had the same thougth leggie. are you guys 100% sure that fps-deatch etc is 100% accure on every demo?!

those 0s and 5s demos look so stupid,why not delete them all, guys today like to watch gay maps to be raped once and once again ?
ofc not !!!

if 0.1 sec shown as a timer model in maps.. then hundreds of KZ maps would be modified? :D

I told you it was just a matter of time until this blew out of proportion, thopa. All it takes is one demo.

Look, you guys have to realize how lame it is to do a map faster than someone else and not get the credit for it. Everyone thinks that if this rule is applied then suddenly all the records will be beatable. This is true, and this is how it should be. But what you guys don't understand is that it doesn't make the record BAD! Just because bibo's time on cg_coldbhop_v2 is actually 57 seconds and not 56 seconds, that doesn't mean that the record suddenly sucks and anyone could beat it. Just because Hannibal's longjumper[x] is 5.xx seconds doesn't make it easier to beat, it just makes it POSSIBLE.

This is going to happen at one time or another. KZ is reaching a point where demos are becoming so perfect that it will have to happen.

The chances of you seeing a demo like kz_world beaten by .2 seconds are incredibly low. If the jumper is fast enough to beat it, it's safe to assume he'll beat it by more than one second.
However, I know people who can tie certain world records on shorter maps. On a 20 second map, .2 seconds is a lot more than you might think.

That's why these should be the rules, in my opinion:

-If ANY demo is tied, but the real time is faster than the in-game time, it should be replaced. Again, chances are this will only apply to short maps.

-If a demo has been beaten according to the in-game time, but not the real time, it should NOT be replaced.

-If a demo has been beaten according to the real time, but not the in-game time, it should STILL BE REPLACED. It is FASTER.


As for the display on the website -- I know thopa disagrees with me here, but I think the best solution is to split the "Time" column into two columns: "In-Game Time", and "Actual Time".
This should not be too difficult or overwhelming to do, and it will provide people with all the information.
If someone thinks, "hmm, I think I'll try to beat rpz_downfall[boxes]", he won't care what the in-game time is. He'll want to know the real time, so it only makes sense to display both of them on the website.

As for the display on the releases -- I think that if a demo is beaten by more than 1 second, only seconds is necessary, and if it is beaten by less, then the accurate time should be written.


The last issue is that of the time limit. I thought a good idea would be to have it 0.1 seconds for all 1+ min maps, and 0.01 for shorter ones.
However, I thought it through, and I realized that it is crucial that the rules will be exactly similar for all of the demos, long or short. This might seem unnecessary for longer demos, but who cares? Once again, the chance of a long (or even short) demo being beaten by 0.01 seconds is VERY small.
That's why I think 0.01 should be as far as demo admins go.


XJ has to finally make the shift from the crappy, unreliable in-game timer to the fps-death timer. It's long been known that the in-game one utterly sucks. eDark has full confidence in the fps-death timer's accuracy, and personally, I trust him on that.


Also, my last point is that changing this rule does NOT exempt people from restarting their server every 60 minutes. It would be retarded to see a demo with an in-game timer of, let's say, 10:00:xx, and an actual time of 10:30:xx.

As an extra rule, I would suggest that if there is too huge of a discrepancy between the in-game timer and the actual time, the demo will not be accepted. This will be up to the demo admins to decide, because it depends on the length of the specific map. I think we can trust them with that, and if something isn't agreed upon by the community, it can always be debated.

So for example:

j2s_westbl0ck_s1gh_0255 (Actual time 2:59:27) ---> should NOT be accepted.
j2s_westbl0ck_s1gh_0258 (Actual time 2:59:32) ---> should be accepted.

risk_compound_s1gh_0009 (Actual time 0:10:04) ---> should be accepted (unless supa has a shorter actual time)
risk_compund_s1gh_0008 (Actual time 0:10:09) ---> should NOT be accepted.



Sorry for this huge rant, but people need to realize this is important and should be taken seriously. I hope XJ admins change their minds and make the right choice.

Agree with most of what s1gh says except for the decimals on longer demos.

"The chance of a long (or even short) demo being beaten by 0.01 seconds is VERY small"

You could argue that that is a reason to not add decimals on longer demos. Simply no need for it.
People shouldn't even have a chance to beat longer demos by 0.1/0.01/0.001 secs imo.
Decimals are ok on the shorter demos, and I think 0.1 is enough.
But what are shorter demos? under 1 min, under 30 secs? Imo under 1min.

"What if someone ties a world record with the same ingame time?"

Ofc the demo with fastest REAL record time should get accepted.

"How should this be shown at the webpage and demo release?"

Agree with s1gh here. Would be better if there was a list with ingame time (02:34) and real time in decimals (02:34,52).

0.1 second, and only for maps in which the WR is 30 sec or less:

kz_kzfr_bhopspace
kz_man_bhopdesert
kz_man_bhopocean
kz_man_bhopsnow
clintmo_longjumper[x]
rpz_downfall[boxes]
kz_man_bhopforest
kz_bhopwarehouse
risk_compound
kz_fairy_island[+secret]
kz_man_alienbase
kzse_bhopblock
kz_kzfr_bhopdwarf
kzfr_bhop_lamborghini
clintmo_bhopbarrels
kzfr_bhop_backalley
clintmo_bhopriver
clintmo_bhopwarehouse
kz_kzfr_bhopaztec
drewbie_longjumps
nfs_longjumpez
cg_coldbhop
kzfr_bhop_leetyard
nfs_longjump

loveinabottle - read my post

omilo & ndr - Okay, so let's assume that there is no need for 0.01 seconds on long maps. Does it hurt anyone to have it? No. It's just an extra luxury. It's like having 2 gigantic steaks to eat. You might just eat 1, but the second is there in case there is an impossible chance that you might be able to eat more than one (fatty!). Of course we're assuming that everyone is rich and Africa doesn't have problems. :P

The reason it is important to do 0.01 on ALL maps and not just some of them is exactly what omilo said - how do you decide which maps are short and which aren't? If you take a completely unbiased approach, you don't have to distinguish between what is long and what is short. You just have 0.01 for all of them.

i think only the time on the timer should count.

Did stormzz tell you to say that?! dam dam dushhhhh.
(I love you don't hurt me)

You said:
"this is the way the maps are designed."

Maps aren't designed to be unbeatable. They are designed... to be played.

"just do the map again and quit whining."

I will not want to do the map again if i did it fast enough to get a world record, but it is not accepted because the other guy had a slight timerbug?

"if there are no hard demos to beat, where is the fun for the top players?"

We're not talking about hard demos to beat. We're talking about impossible demos to beat. Other than those - the "system" will not impact ANY of the longer maps. All it will do is make impossible maps to beat possible to beat, and eliminate the stupid timerbug.


@qewi - thanks for making an argument.

you all do know that just about all demo's have a slower actual time than the demo time..... with what's being posted, right now this is how it should be maps under 1min can be beaten by .1 and maps over 1min beaten by .5?