WR Demo discussion - two demos with the same

IMO, its lame to count with 0.001 secs, cuz u will watch "the same WR" with other player.. +the timer is not used to count milisecounds +WTF will be that demorelease ?! with milisecounds WR ?! and how the "new WR holders" will submit their demos without knowing have they really beated the current WR?(they will upload A LOT OF "WRs", and the admins would need some time to check all demos to approve/deny them) Its too much and too hard work for admins + u can see that these days u must wait a long time to see the new WRs. And admins must re-check all current WRs to count and add their milisecounds...

stick to the way it is

Kz was about fun, this is making it gay. Stick to the way it is. Hel's demo > FOF. Peace

if someone sends in coldbhop with 26seconds, but with a better time than t3d, it should not be accepted.

if two people send in coldbhop with both 25sec, then the demo with a better time in fps death should get accepted.


edit: btw, only the fps-death time counts for me. and only intervals which are at least 1 sec.

Originally posted by s1gh

I told you it was just a matter of time until this blew out of proportion, thopa. All it takes is one demo.

Look, you guys have to realize how lame it is to do a map faster than someone else and not get the credit for it. Everyone thinks that if this rule is applied then suddenly all the records will be beatable. This is true, and this is how it should be. But what you guys don't understand is that it doesn't make the record BAD! Just because bibo's time on cg_coldbhop_v2 is actually 57 seconds and not 56 seconds, that doesn't mean that the record suddenly sucks and anyone could beat it. Just because Hannibal's longjumper[x] is 5.xx seconds doesn't make it easier to beat, it just makes it POSSIBLE.

This is going to happen at one time or another. KZ is reaching a point where demos are becoming so perfect that it will have to happen.

The chances of you seeing a demo like kz_world beaten by .2 seconds are incredibly low. If the jumper is fast enough to beat it, it's safe to assume he'll beat it by more than one second.
However, I know people who can tie certain world records on shorter maps. On a 20 second map, .2 seconds is a lot more than you might think.

That's why these should be the rules, in my opinion:

-If ANY demo is tied, but the real time is faster than the in-game time, it should be replaced. Again, chances are this will only apply to short maps.

-If a demo has been beaten according to the in-game time, but not the real time, it should NOT be replaced.

-If a demo has been beaten according to the real time, but not the in-game time, it should STILL BE REPLACED. It is FASTER.


As for the display on the website -- I know thopa disagrees with me here, but I think the best solution is to split the "Time" column into two columns: "In-Game Time", and "Actual Time".
This should not be too difficult or overwhelming to do, and it will provide people with all the information.
If someone thinks, "hmm, I think I'll try to beat rpz_downfall[boxes]", he won't care what the in-game time is. He'll want to know the real time, so it only makes sense to display both of them on the website.

As for the display on the releases -- I think that if a demo is beaten by more than 1 second, only seconds is necessary, and if it is beaten by less, then the accurate time should be written.


The last issue is that of the time limit. I thought a good idea would be to have it 0.1 seconds for all 1+ min maps, and 0.01 for shorter ones.
However, I thought it through, and I realized that it is crucial that the rules will be exactly similar for all of the demos, long or short. This might seem unnecessary for longer demos, but who cares? Once again, the chance of a long (or even short) demo being beaten by 0.01 seconds is VERY small.
That's why I think 0.01 should be as far as demo admins go.


XJ has to finally make the shift from the crappy, unreliable in-game timer to the fps-death timer. It's long been known that the in-game one utterly sucks. eDark has full confidence in the fps-death timer's accuracy, and personally, I trust him on that.


Also, my last point is that changing this rule does NOT exempt people from restarting their server every 60 minutes. It would be retarded to see a demo with an in-game timer of, let's say, 10:00:xx, and an actual time of 10:30:xx.

As an extra rule, I would suggest that if there is too huge of a discrepancy between the in-game timer and the actual time, the demo will not be accepted. This will be up to the demo admins to decide, because it depends on the length of the specific map. I think we can trust them with that, and if something isn't agreed upon by the community, it can always be debated.

So for example:

j2s_westbl0ck_s1gh_0255 (Actual time 2:59:27) ---> should NOT be accepted.
j2s_westbl0ck_s1gh_0258 (Actual time 2:59:32) ---> should be accepted.

risk_compound_s1gh_0009 (Actual time 0:10:04) ---> should be accepted (unless supa has a shorter actual time)
risk_compund_s1gh_0008 (Actual time 0:10:09) ---> should NOT be accepted.



Sorry for this huge rant, but people need to realize this is important and should be taken seriously. I hope XJ admins change their minds and make the right choice.

Originally posted by .cHoseN

Originally posted by spr1n

bad idea imo
kreedz timer is a built in thing and you wanna ignore that. ye its not perfect, but cmon I dont wanna see a map improved each release by 0.1 second or even less. thats sensless and very stupid imo. whats next? you wount count lj blocks but real distance?

+1

Originally posted by s1gh

Did stormzz tell you to say that?! dam dam dushhhhh.
(I love you don't hurt me)

You said:
"this is the way the maps are designed."

Maps aren't designed to be unbeatable. They are designed... to be played.

"just do the map again and quit whining."

I will not want to do the map again if i did it fast enough to get a world record, but it is not accepted because the other guy had a slight timerbug?

"if there are no hard demos to beat, where is the fun for the top players?"

We're not talking about hard demos to beat. We're talking about impossible demos to beat. Other than those - the "system" will not impact ANY of the longer maps. All it will do is make impossible maps to beat possible to beat, and eliminate the stupid timerbug.


@qewi - thanks for making an argument.

Originally posted by spr1n

but cmon I dont wanna see a map improved each release by 0.1 second or even less. thats sensless and very stupid imo.

Originally posted by PuppetZ^

Like all fucking records will be replaced like every month (who has time for checking those anyway?)!

Originally posted by wRath`

I think you are wrong cheche, because I think that's exactly what will happen, in the first few releases with a new rule that you can beat demos by 0.1 seconds, people will post all the demos with their WR-ties and others would record maps they know they can beat easily with 0.1 seconds.

walls of text hurt my eyes O_O